Mr. Webb: 0:00

How do mental health challenges uniquely manifest in today's college students? What do you think are the biggest mental health challenges facing students today, and why do student anxiety, depression and ADHD seem to be increasing in our educational system? Welcome to the conservative classroom, where we're teaching the truth and preserving our values. I'm your host, mr Webb, and I'm glad you're here. This podcast is a haven for conservative educators, parents and patriots like you, who believe in the importance of free speech, traditional values and education without indoctrination.

Mr. Webb: 0:45

Each week, we dive into issues that are plaguing our education system and keeping you up at night. In each episode, we offer common sense ideas to improve education in our classrooms and communities. You may feel like you're the last conservative educator or parent, but I want you to know that you are not alone. By the way, if you like what you hear today, please share this podcast with a like-minded educator, parent or patriot. Together, we can teach the truth and preserve our values. In today's episode, we'll ask some tough questions to university psychiatrists to get some insight on the mental health issues that are affecting K-12 and college students. Now let's get started. Today I'm excited to welcome a special guest to the conservative classroom, dr Timothy Cordes, a psychiatrist and university health professional, who will share his unique insights on the intersection of mental health and higher education. So, dr Cortes, thank you for being on the podcast. Thank you, joey.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 1:59

I'm glad to be here.

Mr. Webb: 2:00

It was that accurate when I said you'll share your insights on the intersection of mental health and higher education. Yeah, I think so, and before we get into some questions, can you tell us about yourself, your background, what led you to becoming a psychiatrist? And, if I might even add to that, I know when we first contacted each other, you told me you were a conservative leaning psychiatrist, so can you tell us about that?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 2:31

Sure, so I grew up in the Midwest in the 80s and 90s. You know it's kind of a rough and tumble childhood. I'm also blind, so that you know the Americans with Disabilities Act passed in the 90s and so that was big for me and my goal was always to you know, to make something of myself, frankly, you know. And so I went to university and I studied biochemistry but I realized I wanted to do something more personal and more human and got into psychiatry as well, as it's called the Medical Scientist Training Program, where I got a PhD in a foreign language. I got a PhD in a form of structural biochemistry and along the way I needed to do things like I developed a program that lets you listen to the structure of our protein, because I needed that. And so I kept learning and trying and stretching along the way and went into psychiatry and then into addiction psychiatry and then have worked with veterans as well as now in more of a college health setting. So that's that's sort of my pathway.

Mr. Webb: 3:49

And as a psychiatrist in psychiatry excuse me, psychiatrist in student health, is that an accurate representation?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 3:59

Yeah, yeah.

Mr. Webb: 4:01

What? What mental health issues do you find most prevalent among today's college students?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 4:10

There's a, there's a lot of anxiety, you know. Is it more general anxiety? Is it more social anxiety? Is it just adjusting to college anxiety, as well as depression and mood disorders, depending on the campus. Substance use can be a real issue too.

Mr. Webb: 4:34

And have you noticed anxiety, rates of anxiety, increasing over the last few years? Or?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 4:42

Anecdotally it yeah, anecdotally it sure looks like anxiety is going up. You know I I haven't necessarily necessarily seen hard hard data on it, but yeah, it's a real, it's a real concern on campus.

Mr. Webb: 5:00

And you mentioned also substance abuse. Do you see any trends there on college campuses regarding substance abuse?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 5:11

Oh, absolutely, you know, one of the biggest trends is with cannabis legalization or medicalization, you know, as they call it, as, as people perceive the risk of using a substance to go down, their use tends to increase, especially in the in the young. And so cannabis is is, you know, quite pervasive and it's insidious, like it's it's impact on, on people's thinking and motivation. You know, you, you know when you have a hangover and you know from alcohol. But cannabis is is subtler and certainly binge drinking is is always a campus issue.

Mr. Webb: 5:52

So you do see some negative effects there with cannabis.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 5:56

Absolutely.

Mr. Webb: 5:58

How do you address concerns around attention and focus issues in students within the university setting? And then I want to kind of get into some other questions around that, and then even you know, before they get to college, some some things that maybe we see in the K-12 setting. But for now, what concerns around attrition, attention and focus issues, do you see, Sure?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 6:27

Well, I I think of attention problems as a rather non-specific symptom. So people who are anxious can have trouble paying attention because their attention is is diverted to their worry. People who are depressed can can have have, you know, anxious people can have trouble paying attention. Depressed people can have trouble paying attention because they're they're ruminating or they're they're you know they're down, um, people with trauma can have trouble paying attention because their thoughts are going to intrusive. Intrusive thoughts, um. So they're all kinds of issues to address. So there are all kinds of causes for a intentional problem that aren't ADHD. At the same time, some environments are just hard, say, for young boys to sit in a desk and write all day Like. There are situations that make attention problems more concerning. And I think, as well as substance use, cannabis use clearly negatively impacts attention. You know their factors. You know healthy exercise promotes attention. There are a lot of things to consider when we think about problems with attention and when I'm working with someone I try to dig into those things.

Mr. Webb: 7:48

Well, we're still talking about the college setting. One of the big things I wanted to talk to you about and I might as well do it while it's fresh on my mind, and that is some of the mental health issues you see in regards to safe spaces and restricting speech on campus, and the speech is violence, ideas that are going around. How does all that affect mental health and have you seen that on campus?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 8:25

I certainly see those pressures on campus. I think the notion that speech is violence is not helpful, you know, I think a university especially should be a place where people come and become exposed to ideas. They've never thought of Ideas. They may like, they may hate, but they should have the chance to encounter them. And if we protect people from ideas, we're actually protecting them and preventing them from necessary steps in becoming a mature, competent adult who can decide for themselves. It's the same thing with safe spaces. There's nothing wrong with having a safe space that maybe it's your dorm room or your apartment, that's fine. But this notion of words being harm is just not helpful to the normal processes of growing and learning.

Mr. Webb: 9:35

Do you see any? The DEI initiatives, diversity and equity, inclusion, as I'm sure the listeners are aware, and how that's focused more on race and less on diversity of thought, diversity of ideas. I like what you said. University should be a place where students can get exposed to different ideas. It seems like at some point that's changed a little, where they're all supposed to think the same way about certain things.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 10:05

Yeah, let me give you an example. At my university we have about 50 therapists on staff, and some of those therapists are specifically designated to work with particular identity groups so that those folks feel comfortable getting therapy. However, in those 50 therapists we don't have a single therapist with the skill set to treat obsessive compulsive disorder or the skill set to treat bulimia nervosa or anorexia nervosa. They've actually recruited folks based on identity before skill set or diagnosis that they could treat, and that's where this kind of thing shows up.

Mr. Webb: 10:53

It seems like that should be a red flag. It seems like the skill set should come before skin color. I guess you could say yeah. Just to put it, I guess, as simple as possible, right.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 11:10

And I think you need to balance both goals. And it's great to have therapists that people feel comfortable with. At the same time, you also need to be able to treat the kinds of disorders that students have.

Mr. Webb: 11:24

Speaking of disorders, I want to get into some questions that some of my listeners and before our interview I put this thought out there on to some of my listeners and some folks in the some conservative teacher type Facebook groups what questions they might have, and I was kind of blown away by the response. So I picked a few of those. I couldn't ask you all those because this is not a Joe Rogan link podcast, but and I wish I had thought to ask the folks if you mind if I use your name on air, quote unquote, but I didn't. So at least this go around. I won't use their name, case they want to remain anonymous. But so here's one question.

Mr. Webb: 12:13

I'd love to hear their thoughts. They're talking about you. They love to hear your thoughts on students with anxiety. There's been an insurgent insurgence in the last decade of support animals etc. And we aren't talking about war vets who have seen horrific things and lives through unspeakable trauma. So they feel like this is linked to COVID. What are your thoughts on that? And it seemed the end sentence here I just see an alarming number of kids who seem to have self diagnosed anxiety and can't seem to function unless they are getting their way with everything. So what do you think about that? Do you see that? What's?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 13:03

your answer there. Yeah, so it looks like there's a couple pieces to this. First of all, you know, I think it's helpful to think about what is anxiety? What's the what is the role for anxiety? So anxiety draws our attention to things that may cause danger. So when I'm going to walk across the street, anxiety keeps me from walking against the light, and that's appropriate. And anxiety becomes a problem when it's too pervasive or too strong and actually, you know, prevents you from doing things. So experiencing some level of worry or anxiety is normal and is part of life.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 13:49

And when we're thinking about kids and young adults is necessary because they are inherently stretching beyond what was comfortable.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 13:59

You know, if you could talk to, you know, a one year old that when they're trying to walk and keep falling down, you know, I don't know if they'd be anxious, right, it's like a hard process, you know, but they're, they're expanding their world.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 14:16

So I think, at some level, I think it's it's good to notice that anxiety is present and that it being present doesn't inherently mean you don't do things. And then look into the causes, you know if there are more, you know general problems or panic attacks, and those things need to be, you know, diagnosed and addressed. And then you know, with COVID I think it probably was a factor. You know, a lot of students sort of missed out on a year of socialization with their friends and just learning how to be with people and interact and you know, and handle positive and negative encounters. So I think they are sort of behind the curve a bit. I don't know when that, you know, will straighten out or how, how they'll catch up. Kids are good at catching up, so I don't want to under estimate them, but I think that is a factor.

Mr. Webb: 15:11

How can we and maybe this is not something we as teachers can do how can we discern if a student has actual anxiety or it's, if it's a perceived, almost like they've seen other people with anxiety get special treatment? And special treatment is not the, that's probably not the right, that's not the PC phrase for that, but you know what I'm, you know what I'm talking about. I think, yeah, I can tell if it's real, or is that even a teacher's job?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 15:44

Yeah, I don't like it when people tell me my job, so I'm going to try not to tell you your job. But I think, and I think the other thing to say is, you know their, their experience of anxiety is real. You know, like they're, they're likely experiencing things which which cause some level of distress, so that experience is real. So I get a little worried about using the word real, but, but I think the things to do, or you know, to engage, to encourage, to try to understand, you know what's what's going on. You know are they, are they anxious? Does it happen to be anxious? You know that when the test is coming, you know, are they anxious when they have to go to their? You know their dads instead of their mom After school? You know there's there's all kinds of all kinds of reasons and I know that's that's a lot to ask of a teacher, but sometimes it's that kind of thing.

Mr. Webb: 16:41

Do you think the prevalence of prescription drugs? You know, in the last 20, 30 years there's prescription drug commercials on all the time. And something I've noticed, and you know I'm just a regular guy, I'm just a teacher, so I'm not in the psychiatric field, but I've noticed that even adults, even teachers, will sometimes just like throw out these prescriptions that they're on, you know, like, oh, my anxiety, I forgot to take my such and such. This morning my anxiety's up, or you know, I forgot to take this or that, and I think I think it's almost normalized. And I wonder if, since I've seen, you know, from when I was in school, you hardly heard about anybody that had, for instance, anxiety. Now, no, there's a lot of other issues we could talk about. But since we're on anxiety and nowadays it seems like a ton of people have anxiety and will gladly tell you what medication they're on. Sometimes they'll volunteer that information Do you think that has effect on kids?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 18:03

I think so for sure, and once again, it's a sort of a two-way street. I think it's good that people who need help can get it and it's not stigmatized like it may have been, you know, at some point. So I think that's good. But I think the pervasiveness, yes, is concerning, I mean, advertising. The commercials are on TV because they work right, so clearly. You know people see that and then talk about it and kids, you know, wonder. You know, am I depressed, you know, and especially with social media and TikTok and those echo chambers, and you know it's easy to get those messages. You know we'll have students coming in and say, you know, I think, you know I saw on TikTok, I think I have undiagnosed autistic spectrum disorder, you know, and these things just propagate. And so definitely, I think those you know whether it's advertising or something else can get it on kids' radars.

Mr. Webb: 19:04

I appreciate your input into that and another question that I had from a listener. I agree with the questions about anxiety they write how do we stay sensitive and caring but help send a strong message to students that helps empower them to overcome their anxiety? I think this is one of the main struggles. I'm seeing so many kids using anxiety as a way to avoid anything uncomfortable and they go on to say I get that, it's real, but I feel we aren't doing a very good job of equipping students. This is the part I like equipping students with tools and methods to overcome anxiety and they say more than that, but that's the part I want to hone in on is equipping students to give them the tools to overcome anxiety.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 20:01

Yeah, I think that's a great point. So so there's a lot of. There's a lot of answers already in this question. I think if there's ways to empower kids, to give them some level of control, that's appropriate in, say, what kind of project they do or in their group presentation. I think giving them some level of control is helpful, but also making them accountable for an outcome and so they.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 20:34

The thing that defeats anxiety is exposure, experience and, in this case, gaining mastery. So I think if we can set up kids to have an opportunity to stretch and to succeed, I think those are the ways. So other things you can do is there's a whole area called cognitive therapy where you sort of try to understand. Maybe they're distorted ideas that are making them anxious If I don't get this project right, I won't go to college. Or maybe they have some ideas that are just, or all my friends do perfect work because they tell me they do, and so when I make a mistake I must be awful. There's probably ideas like that that are contributing. And then are there behaviors that are engaging in that are contributing to their anxiety? I would hope young kids aren't. But are they having a lot of caffeine? Do they get enough exercise. Those sort of things too can contribute. And I think it's the whole. It's holding them accountable, validating their progress and giving them those kind of tools, I think are the ways to do it.

Mr. Webb: 21:58

Now that you brought it up, I wonder if diet and exercise isn't a huge part of the problem, because I know the generation I grew up in versus today's generation. Today's generation has a lot more sugar and caffeine and a lot less activity.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 22:22

There's a wonderful book I read I think it's Johann Hari is the author called Stolen Focus and it's all about problems with attention that folks have and it takes this really multi-factorial approach to understanding it and, I think, considering attention and anxiety. If your listeners would want to check that out, it's a wonderful book.

Mr. Webb: 22:50

Stolen Focus. Okay, I'm going to look that up and link it in the show notes if I can find it. I'm sure it's available on Amazon. And another question that kind of ties into that this is a great question too Are we doing a kid's favor? Are we doing kids a favor by giving them a place to avoid things that are uncomfortable? And then my question to kind of tag onto that is what's the line between helping them avoid uncomfortable situations and helping them face uncomfortable situations head on?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 23:30

That's a great question. So if you look at someone who, say, has anxiety in a given situation and you put them in that situation a panic attack in a certain environment would be a good example. If you put them in that situation and they rate their subjective level of distress, it will rise and then eventually it will go down. And that's the idea behind exposure. If they leave the situation while it's rising, they learn that the solution to their anxiety is avoidance of the situation. So the value of a safe space to not be exposed to the anxiety is only valuable if it gives them a place to regroup and re-approach. But if they're just fleeing from the anxiety to that place, you're actually teaching people to be more anxious.

Mr. Webb: 24:37

So a place to kind of get theirself together versus just an escape, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 24:45

I would use it to get yourself together and re-approach, but ideally, stick with things as long as you can, because you will find the data are clear. So that's the way the anxiety gets better.

Mr. Webb: 25:03

And I know when we first connected, we were going to talk about some things you see on campus, and when I put the feeler out there and all these questions came in, our focus kind of shifted, didn't it? So I appreciate so much you're willing to tackle some of these tough issues. And I want to also add to my listeners that there was no kind of preparation for this. Right before we went on the air I sent him like hey, here's some questions a bunch of folks are asking and it's not on the topic we were going to talk about. So I appreciate that.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 25:43

It's all good yeah.

Mr. Webb: 25:47

We've talked about safe spaces, we've talked about anxiety, we've talked a little about substance abuse and I know another huge topic is depression, and one person asks depression is huge in the young population. Now I think it is because technology has replaced in-person relationships. So what's your thoughts on that statement?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 26:18

The data are pretty clear that, especially in young women, screen time and time with technology correlates with worse mood. So there's definitely something there and I do think we're really running a huge experiment on our children with all this technology. That is unlike anything humanity has ever raised its children with for millennia. So I think the story of what all this social media technology does and will do is still unknown, but it is concerning and I do think having real limits on it so that kids can participate in interactions with each other, especially unstructured interactions, not part of a team where they're following a coach's orders, things like that. I think it does help with resilience and mood and learning to navigate the world. So I wouldn't hang depression entirely on screens for sure, but it's definitely a factor. I have two boys. One is 13 and the other one is 16. The third-year-old does not have a smartphone and the 16-year-old. We have real limits and consequences regarding limits on their use because we're so concerned about how dangerous it can be.

Mr. Webb: 27:51

What about the, let's say, teenage? I know it's mainly boys, but I know there's some girls that play video games too. But I know my son he's grown now but I know through his teenage years he played. He did a lot of online gaming with a headset on and played with his friends and they were on there for hours and I remember me and my wife having the conversation. He's playing a video game, but he's actually talking with his friends for hours and hours, much more maybe than we would have, you know, talked to our friends after school. So I wonder. I've never talked to anybody about that, but I wonder what your take is on that. Could there be parts of that that are healthy?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 28:42

I think you're right. I think there's some data that's either positive or mixed on boys and video games, that they're not necessarily harmful in the ways that the social media is for girls. So, yeah, I think there's actually. I don't have it off the top of my head, but I think there's actually data to that end. And what I would say, just like anything, you know, moderation is the key and if it's taking up so much time, you know he's not taking out the garbage or studying. That's a problem, you know. But otherwise, you know, I, you know, keep, keep an eye on it, because it might be just fine.

Mr. Webb: 29:18

Right, and this is a question that that I have. Excuse me, I wonder and this is just this is me putting a thought that I have out there. I I see kids sometimes when they're small and their parents let them run, run wild, so to speak. I mean, you watch them. It seems like the parent lets them get into things, things you know. As a parent, I'm like, oh, I can't believe they're letting them do that. I would not let my kid do that. Later, that kids, you know, ends up in the school system and they're diagnosed as hyperactive and they're on medication. Now I see this a lot and I wonder how much is parents, didn't parents let them do whatever they wanted to when they were young? Then, when they got in school, they they couldn't be controlled in a classroom, and how much of that is? They had maybe ADHD when they were a child, which is why they seemed like they were acting a little wild. Tell me what your thoughts are on that.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 30:32

Yeah, that is a dicey one, because on one level, expectations and structure and teaching appropriate behavior that's necessary and that's the role of parents.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 30:49

But the other hand, adhd can manifest early. By definition it does. And so, you know, in people with ADHD especially, you know more severe types, you'll see it in the younger ages. You know one characteristic is it appearing in multiple domains, you know. Is it showing up at home, is it showing up with friends, you know, is it showing up at school to sort of understand this? But there's a you know. And the other thing we do know is, you know medications clearly are very helpful, but so is structure and other ways for the parents to help, you know, set up the right behaviors. And the other thing is, you know school is hard for young, active boys and it's not, you know, especially in the grade school age. It's not designed for what a boy likes to do, you know. And just acknowledging that and where you can, you know building in things that work for them, you know hands-on labs and you know making sure that schools keep recess and those sort of things you know might help young boys especially.

Mr. Webb: 32:00

What about the middle school age, like 12, 13, 14? How much physical activity do they still need, you know, in the classroom? And is there a point where they kind of get away from that? Or should I, as a math teacher, be looking for ways, maybe, to do more hands-on activities?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 32:24

That's a good question. I always think of the sciences, where those are great.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 32:31

So you know, I think you know, 30 minutes of exercise, you know, most days of the week, I think, is the guidance for kids that age. So, as a minimum. So I think that's sort of something to keep track of. And I do think we also sort of stray into that notion where kids have experienced so much edutainment, where they think school is going to be entertaining as well as educational. And you know, I work with my own boys on that and try to challenge that notion that learning in itself is the value and you may have to, you know, provide your input to it and it's not just going to entertain you. So so I don't, you know, I don't want to say you have to make it all, you know, all exciting, because I think that's that's also not helpful. So I think it's a combination you know expectations of access to exercise and you know mixing it up when you can.

Mr. Webb: 33:28

Right, well, that sounds like good advice. I appreciate that this question that a listener asked is similar in similar nature to what I just asked, because where I was what I was talking about the parents. That's what this question starts with. Parents play a big role in the entitlement of their children in today's world. How can the schools fix the problem of an overbearing parent who won't let their child grow and be blaming teachers because they haven't trained their child to be proper adults? Yeah, you know, as I'm reading that, I'm like you know I'm not sure that that's really a question for a psychiatrist. Nevertheless, you might have some insights on that that we as teachers might not have.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 34:25

Yeah Well, so you know, like I said when I started, I'm also blind and so I recall when I wanted to be a wrestler in fifth grade and my mother was so scared about her little boy going to be a wrestler so she took me down and I remember her talking to the coach and the coach told her, you know, in no uncertain terms, he's going to be fine. We got this, ma'am, you know, and just that reassurance that. You know we're professionals, you know how to do this. Like you know we got this. Your student has this. You know we've worked with kids before. We'll work with kids again and this is in their wheelhouse and we wouldn't ask them to do it if it wasn't you know. So I think just that you know that certainty.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 35:17

It's also helpful to understand why are the parents like this? I mean, you know education, some people think it's pretty high stakes. You know you got to get into the right this, to get into the right that, and the parents are probably putting a lot of pressure on their child, you know. You know, based on their own personal experiences and memories. And so you know, understanding that. You know that the parent, you know, just maybe even acknowledging the parents anxiety, you know you seem really, really stressed about this, you know.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 35:51

But I also think, directly telling the parents, you know, in a nice way, that your help is not helping. You know, once again, you know, as a blind guy, you know people can try to help you in ways that you don't need and you don't want. And you know there's the old adage you give a man a fish and I'll eat for a day. And you teach him to fish and I'll eat for a lifetime. And letting the parents know that. You know, although this will help with the immediate challenge, you guys need to back off and like let your kid do some of this and it will be messy and they may fail, but that's, that's the whole. That's the whole game, you know.

Mr. Webb: 36:33

It makes me think of a book that I read last year year before last, I'm not real sure by Lenore Kisei Skenezi Free Range Kids. Have you heard of that book? I've heard of it.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 36:47

I haven't read it, but yeah.

Mr. Webb: 36:49

Yeah, I highly recommend that.

Mr. Webb: 36:50

I think she was called the worst mother or something like that in the in America because she, she gave her I don't remember how old, I wasn't prepared to talk about the book or I could look up specifics but one of her kids. She gave them money and let them take the subway and make their way all the way back home, you know, in the city, and people thought that was terrible and she was kind of. The whole premise of the book is, you know, letting kids be kids, letting them do things that might be scary to us, that the world is actually a safer place than it used to be when we were kids, maybe. And to let them experience some things and not be, you know, a helicopter apparent.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 37:37

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I recall when I was a kid I was out fishing with a buddy, you know, no parents around for miles and, you know, fell in a very cold stream and we like, built a fire, you know, and dried out and like those, you know, those are the kind of things we did, you know. I don't know if a kid would do that these days, you know. So it's. There's another book who, I think, cited the free range parenting, the Coddling of the American Mind, by Greg Luchendorf and Jonathan Haidt, wonderful book, and it touches on that same free range parenting idea in one of its chapters.

Mr. Webb: 38:21

I did an episode back in the summer. I was doing summer bookshelf series is what I called it where I was either having authors come on or reviewing books, and I reviewed those two books together because I felt like they went hand in hand. So I'm glad you brought that up. I've got there's so many, so many things we could talk about. But there is one more question that, when actually this person has been on the podcast before and it's a great question there's a lot of teachers who because this, this is kind of new in the school systems, it's one of the things that you heard about and then it seemed like almost overnight it was in the school system. So the question is why do so many want to normalize, wanting to change genders, instead of using mental health to try and heal them? Why are there psychiatrists and therapists that want to and she puts this in quotation marks help individuals with this mental disorder go through a transition, instead of finding the root cause of them feeling these very unnatural feelings and helping to actually heal them?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 39:39

Yeah, those are great questions and this is a huge issue. So, first of all, there are people who have gender dysphoria at some percentage, whereby they're extremely uncomfortable and uneasy in their body and would feel more comfortable as another sex. It's a real thing. The prevalence is a question and I haven't seen a good explanation why the prevalence has shot up so dramatically in the past few years. There is some thought that there's a social contagion phenomenon driving this, where people encounter this in social media and other ways. That may be a factor here.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 40:34

I can only imagine being a teacher, because I've been the parent During COVID. I got to sit at home with my child and listen to them get the gender identity lecture in school, so I had the opportunity to participate, at least hear it. I can imagine it would be so hard as a teacher, especially put in situations where some teachers can't tell the parents their child's gender or pronouns or name. Just in that in-between space. It seems like parents, who have the societal and other obligation to care for this child, should be involved in this. So it must be really hard being a teacher inserted into that.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 41:26

So why do doctors want to help? Doctors always want to help, but how they help and whether their help is helpful. Those are different questions. I think there's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of social, societal pressures on this. Just the definition providing treatment is called affirming. So if you don't provide treatment, that's non-affirming, just by definition. So the definitional landscape is set up, tipped towards intervention, if you think about just the words we use. And you're right, I think it's helpful to slow down. A lot of this happens at puberty. Puberty is not particularly pleasant for a lot of folks and it's a time of distress when bodies are changing in ways we wish they didn't. That's all going on and so I think well-meaning people and people experiencing pressures go along with affirming it, because that's what you do, and I think that's kind of my story with that.

Mr. Webb: 42:46

Yeah, and the part of that question was not necessarily why are there psychiatrists and therapists who want to help, but why they want to help patients go through a transition instead of finding a root cause or seeing if there's a root cause. And maybe they do, maybe just those cases don't make the news, I guess.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 43:13

Yeah, I think it's a really tricky topic, and when somebody says this is what I want and this is what I think will help, it takes a lot of patience and time to say, hey, slow down there and let's think about this, because the way it's constructed is that's not an affirming way to be, and so I think we do need to work on understanding before we act. And the other part is the health outcomes of things like puberty blockers and all these treatments are not well understood and the consequences down the road are not particularly well understood. So I think we really do need to take care with these kinds of decisions.

Mr. Webb: 44:01

Right. And again, as someone who doesn't have a background in psychiatry, just a regular guy, teacher, conservative, I think of. If there was a student who I say student, let's say patient. If there was a person who, let's say, was 13, but they said, no, I identify as someone who's 53. I feel like that the doctors would try to figure out what that root cause was, instead of, well, let's see if we can prescribe some things that will accelerate aging for this, for this person.

Mr. Webb: 44:44

And if someone using a ridiculous example here but if someone identified as a different race, they wouldn't say well, let's see what we can do to get your pigmentation changed or identify as a different species. That's really ridiculous. I've never heard anybody doing that. But you get what I'm saying there. I feel like we would psychiatrists and doctors would try to get to the root cause and say there's something wrong here, instead of okay, let's make that happen, let's start, let's put you on this surgical table and give you some medicine and see if we can't make that happen. But I feel like with the gender thing it's more okay. If that's how you feel, then let's do that. And I don't understand why it's that way with that, when it's obviously insane to think. If it's those other examples I mentioned, that'd be unthinkable.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 45:51

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot to that. So I think the notion that young, that people totally know who they are with respect to gender, even at a young age, I think is that's, yeah, that seems a bit odd and, like I say, this is just such a hot, hot button topic right now.

Mr. Webb: 46:12

Right and I appreciate you Again. I appreciate you coming on the podcast and talking about some of these issues and I know, as a psychiatrist, you probably have to be very careful on what you say because at any given whether it's anxiety or whether it's gender dysphoria a lot of it's case by case basis. So it's hard I'm assuming it's hard sometimes to make a statement and say, well, I can't really make this statement because it depends on the individual. So I know I've kind of I felt like I've backed you into a corner a couple times. I didn't mean to, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on these very important issues.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 47:00

Sure, I mean, for example, I know you know well adjusted, healthy transgender young adults you know who are successful in their academics, moving on to careers, and you know that that also, you know that occurs and I've had the luck, you know, and the fortune to to meet with those folks too. So that's also, you know, a part of this story.

Mr. Webb: 47:22

Right, well, I usually um in the episode with a few key takeaways. It's hard to end this episode because there's. I do this all the time and I know my listeners like, oh, here we go again, but I really do when I get into deep conversation. I could go on and on and on, so I would love to have you back on and talk about some other issues. Um, I'd love to have you back on to talk about your story. Uh, you mentioned that you were blind and I wasn't even going to mention that in this episode. But I would like to have you back on just to talk about, you know, overcoming adversity and folks out there who are struggling. Just to hear somebody that like hey, I struggled a lot too. I went through. You know, I'm blind, I, I went. I had to overcome a lot of obstacles to get where I'm at today. So I'd love to have you back on, maybe multiple times, who knows.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 48:19

Can I? Can I give you a story related to that about speeches Harm, sure, sure, thank you. Uh, yeah, so I, um, you know I in college, uh, you know my name's Tim Tim Cordis. Um, so people in the dorm started to call me Timmy C, right, easy enough, right. And then one of my friends in the dorm decided that he would transition that into Timmy C Nothing Uh, so tell this day, he's a great friend of mine, uh, wonderful guy, and you know, calls me Timmy C Nothing, uh, and and and. These days that would be like hate speech or something, right, you know people wins and shrug, but you know it was necessary to, to have you know the armor and the ability to shrug off you know life, to to get where I have it. And I think we do people a disservice when, when we we treat them as as more fragile than they they need to be.

Mr. Webb: 49:17

I agree. I agree with that. I've probably been, uh been, guilty of doing that to some students maybe my own kids at times, who knows but, uh, I usually end the episode with a few key takeaways. What's the one thing, dr Cordis, that you want the listener to remember, if they don't remember anything else about this episode?

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 49:40

You know, especially, you know parents, um, you know as parents, also as teachers, early, um, you know, be aware of what your kids are up to. You know parenting is is so important. I see that you know when, when kids arrive at college you know I was one of my kids came home, uh, and said we learned at school sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will hurt me forever. Uh, and, and you know you can hear the record scratch when my child told me this. You know, and, and just you know, do what you can to encourage your kids, your, your students, to to be resilient to, to try to fail and to try again. You know, cause that's where we get where, where we are and and where we're going.

Mr. Webb: 50:29

I love it. Resiliency, that is. That's the key. Well, can you share with our listeners where they can find information about any projects? Uh, connect with you on social media and basically, this is your time to plug or promote anything you want to promote. Sure.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 50:49

So I'm on LinkedIn. I also just set up a sub stack, uh, where I'll be putting out some you know ideas and newsletters. Uh, it's called IdeasFirst. substack. com. Uh, so, joey, I might email you that. Make sure I got that straight.

Mr. Webb: 51:09

Yeah, um, but that in the show notes too.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 51:13

Yeah, so that's, uh, there will be content. Uh, I've just recently set it up. Otherwise, I just, you know, I just wanted a chance to talk about, talk about stuff that matters.

Mr. Webb: 51:25

Thank you so much, Dr. Cordes. It's been a pleasure having you on The Conservative Classroom. I appreciate you coming on. I know my listeners appreciate your insights on these topics and I know that my listeners that shared out those questions really appreciate you kind of tackling some of those tough issues. So thank you so much.

Dr. Timothy Cordes: 51:48

You bet Thanks. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it being on, thank you.

Mr. Webb: 51:52

That's it for today's episode of The Conservative Classroom. Thank you for tuning in and I hope you enjoyed it and learned something. If you liked what you heard, please don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. That would really help the podcast out. Most importantly, share this podcast with a like minded educator, parent or patriot. You can also connect with us on social media and share your thoughts on today's topic by sending me an email at the conservative classroom at gmailcom. We'd love to hear from you If you feel that education without indoctrination and teaching the truth is important to preserve traditional values and support my efforts to keep the conservative classroom running.

Mr. Webb: 52:41

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