Mr. Webb: 0:00

How does a teacher's refusal to conform to school policies on gender identity lead to a battle for religious freedom and free speech in the classroom? What happens when a dedicated educator is forced to choose between her faith and her profession? And can a teacher maintain personal beliefs without compromising his or her role in an increasingly politicized education system? How does a teacher's refusal to conform to school policies on gender identity lead to a battle for religious freedom and free speech in the classroom? Welcome to The Conservative Classroom, where we're teaching the truth and preserving our values. I'm your host, Mr. Webb, and I'm glad you're here.

Mr. Webb: 0:39

This podcast is a haven for conservative educators, parents and patriots like you who believe in the importance of free speech, traditional values and education without indoctrination. Each week, we dive into issues that are plaguing our education system and keeping you up at night. In each episode, we offer common sense ideas to improve education in our classrooms and communities. You may feel like you're the last conservative educator or parent, but I want you to know that you are not alone. By the way, if you like what you hear today, please share this podcast with a like-minded educator, parent or patriot. Together, we can teach the truth and preserve our values.

Mr. Webb: 1:28

In today's episode, we're joined by Jessica Tapia, a former California teacher who faced dismissal for standing by her religious beliefs in the midst of a heated debate over gender identity policies in schools. Now let's get started. Today, I'm excited to welcome a special guest to the conservative classroom Jessica Tapia. Jessica was a teacher who stood up for her Christian values and was fired for it. Jessica fought back and is in the middle of a legal battle with her school district, and she's joined today by her attorney, bethany Onushenko. Jessica and Bethany, thank you for joining us.

Bethany Onishenko: 2:14

Thanks for having us.

Mr. Webb: 2:16

Jessica, to start, can you tell us a bit about yourself, your background in teaching, before we get into the controversy behind your First Amendment rights being violated.

Jessica Tapia: 2:30

Sure. So I, right out of high school, began attending California Baptist University. I'm a homebody and it was about 10 minutes up the street and I loved that it was a Christian university. So I started attending CBU. I began studying kinesiology because I have a passion for health and fitness and really I was gearing all of my classes and so forth towards becoming an occupational therapist and hoping to get into Loma Linda University for their doctorate program, which I did end up doing.

Jessica Tapia: 3:14

However, when that program was slated to start was right when I was going to get married and go off on a honeymoon and they actually suggested that I don't start the program during that time of my life because it was going to be very intense. So they said they would hold my acceptance for a year, and I am very like go go, go bad at giving myself breaks or rest. So I was like glad they would do that but knew I needed to, that I wouldn't be able to really wait a whole year to start my doctorate program. And it was all God intended for sure, because after getting married I was told that I could substitute teach with my bachelor's. So I began doing that and that was really what I needed to receive the clarity on what to do next and God made it clear that I was gifted to teach.

Jessica Tapia: 4:10

So I went ahead and went back to CBU and got my single subject, teaching credential in physical education and actually, as I was earning that I was I was substitute teaching. That was really cool because I was getting to put into practice and really kind of see it all play out, everything that I was learning about being a teacher. And this was right at the high school that I went to, where I met my husband at, and then where I was eventually fired from, I was also coaching, coaching basketball. I did a season of softball as well, and that's kind of my background in how I got into teaching. And again, I then was hired by that very school district that I was a student at. That I was substitute teaching and coaching out and I got to teach six years there before I was then fired at the end of my sixth year.

Mr. Webb: 5:15

I didn't mention where you were teaching. I don't know how specific you want to get with that, but at least tell us what part of the country you were teaching. And if you want to go further than that, that's a good question, southern California. At what point you said you worked there for six years before, I guess before this happened. At what point did you, before we get into exactly what happened At what point did you start noticing a shift in school policies that conflicted with your personal beliefs?

Jessica Tapia: 5:45

I actually didn't notice or be made aware of any shift or change in policy.

Jessica Tapia: 5:56

I guess the most that I kind of was clued into was, honestly, through social media.

Jessica Tapia: 6:01

I was kind of starting to see some crazy things pop up in regards to, you know, like locker rooms and pronouns and the whole gender theory, you know, infiltrating in.

Jessica Tapia: 6:16

But it was one of those things where it was like I'm just seeing this on social media.

Jessica Tapia: 6:21

I'm not experiencing it myself as a teacher in this school district or state, so it wasn't really a reality for me until my actual school district made me aware of these certain directives that I was to comply with in order to keep my job and that really the way I found out about those was unique students this was at the end of my sixth year of teaching decided to look me up on Instagram, on social media, and they found my personal page there and through it found my Christian conservative beliefs, which I'm very vocal about on my, my personal page, as I have, you know, the freedom to do and be, and you know it wasn't like that page of mine was had any affiliation with my school district or my position as a teacher at all.

Jessica Tapia: 7:24

And, yeah, through that they they discovered essentially my personal beliefs and values and opinions on various things going on in society and current culture. They sent several various things from my page to the school district and it was at that point when the school district called me out of class up to the office and placed me on paid administrative leave while they investigated.

Mr. Webb: 7:59

So was there any event that led up to this, or was it just the students kind of finding out some things behind the scenes?

Jessica Tapia: 8:08

Yeah, I mean I would say the event was students for whatever reason I have no idea why, but for whatever reason deciding to look me up on social media and finding the things they found. I mean that really was the turning point. So to say everything was fine, I mean, I had this came completely out of the blue for me. I was. I could have never, ever imagined this, not even in my worst nightmares, really, of being fired, of having allegations made against me. This is absolutely not you know who I am or true to my character at all. It just really goes to show how far things have gone with gender theory and really the lack of acceptance or tolerance nowadays for Christians and our Christian or Judeo-Christian values, which our country was founded on. They're just coming so head to head with, you know, the trends and theories of today and you know Christians are being canceled and persecuted and fired, and that's really essentially my story.

Mr. Webb: 9:36

And you weren't pushing your Christian values in your classroom. Is that correct?

Jessica Tapia: 9:42

Correct. Yeah, I think I once found my page, found how you know outspoken and bold of a believer I am, you know, through my social media. They used that knowledge to claim that I was talking to students about God or the Bible, and one of the other just very outlandish allegations was that I broadcast sermons to my class and you know I took the time to explain to my district. The only thing I could think of that an allegation as such would be made is that I am a PE teacher on their certain days that I allow my students to listen to music or a podcast that they're choosing while they're, say, doing their running activity. I do the same thing from my phone, with it in my pocket, you know, loud enough for me to hear it as I supervise, you know, them on the running track or whatever it may be. So if a student walked by me, they might have heard a Christian song, you know, and there's thousands upon thousands of Christian teachers in public school that you know on their desk have worship music just playing loud enough for them to hear, while they, you know, sit in grade, while students do independent work, whatever the case may be. And so I told my district, you know I've never had students gather around and tell them they're going to listen to a sermon. But you know this, they might have heard something come from my phone if they walked by me on the track.

Jessica Tapia: 11:18

And then, in terms of speaking to students about God or the Bible, if they have come to me with a question, you know I answer it from an educational standpoint, as I have the right to do, but never in a manner where you know I'm proselytizing or, you know, leading them to Christ, so to say. But I have had, over the six years of teaching, that I've done. You know, several students come to me and just ask, you know where I go to church, if I go to church, what Bible verse I have memorized, if I have any memorized, or just, you know random questions that you get from students, and the district was telling me that now, from there on out, I was to completely refrain from even answering, you know, a question as such.

Mr. Webb: 12:08

Right, and as a teacher myself, you know I keep my politics and my religion out of the classroom. But if a student asks you a question to me, just giving them an honest answer, that's different than pushing something. So, Bethany, let me ask you a question from a legal perspective. Is there anything wrong if a student asks you a question, if you just answer them honestly?

Bethany Onishenko: 12:37

Right.

Mr. Webb: 12:39

Again if it's totally out of the blue.

Bethany Onishenko: 12:40

Correct. My understanding is that as long as you aren't from again the teaching pulpit, so to speak, the teaching stand, you know throwing your religious beliefs out there, then you're good to go. You know, if a student comes up to you privately and asks you a question and you answer it, you're totally fine. And again, teachers don't shred their constitutional First Amendment rights when they walk through the school door, and so I don't see any problem at all with you answering a question honestly when asked by a student.

Mr. Webb: 13:10

Jessica, isn't that part of what your issue is is not lying to students? Am I correct? Absolutely, Because you mentioned gender once or twice. So tell us how the gender thing, how that come about.

Jessica Tapia: 13:24

Yeah so.

Mr. Webb: 13:26

Well, you're in California so I know the rules are a little different there. If a student decides, for instance, to transition, are you supposed to keep that from the parent, Correct?

Jessica Tapia: 13:37

Yes, that's guidance from the state of California and actually, since my story went out earlier this year I think it was like one to two months later a bill actually came forth called AB 1314, the parental notification bill, and it was actually created to stop this guidance really, under which I was one of the reasons why I was fired and one of the things that I refused to comply with.

Jessica Tapia: 14:11

And the parental notification bill was created to override what's currently in place, which is that school, district, school personnel are to withhold that information from parents, and so parental notification bill, which has been passed in several I don't know the exact number like five to seven. So college school districts now I'm sorry there's a couple in Northern California, but basically the districts that have passed it are now have overridden the withholding in that line guidance from the California Department of Ed and the policy will now say something along the lines of within two to four days. This information does need to get to parents if it is found out about that a student is questioning their identity or wanting to change their gender, wanting to enter a locker room you know that doesn't match their biological sex or wanting like a name and pronoun change, requesting that by a teacher. Again, california says that that should be kept from parents, but there are a select few school districts now that have been able to adopt a policy to override that.

Mr. Webb: 15:42

And did you run into any issues as a PE teacher with biological males wanting to go into the girls locker rooms?

Jessica Tapia: 15:53

So I didn't. I never had the case where I noticed, you know, a male trying to enter, or I had one even requesting to do so. What's really unique about my story is that I was fired on all hypothetical situations. So my district said you know, how would you handle it if a student you know was requesting to be to, you know, go by the opposite sex? Now how would you handle it if you know a transgender was wanting to come into your locker room? How would you handle it if you know there's a situation with a parent you know asking a question about their student and you know say I knew the truth, I know what the student has requested, how the student's behavior has changed, you know. And so I answered all of these hypothetical situations Honestly, which is that I would really handle them all. In truth, I wouldn't let. If I knew that this student is male, I would not let them in the girls locker room. And if I had information about somebody else's child and you know they're asking me, I'm going to tell them the truth. You know, I believe that withholding the truth is equivalent to lying, you know. And then, even with the piece that many people say oh, it's not a big deal, you know, if a student is wanting to be referred to by the opposite sex or have a name or pronoun change. But it's like it is a big deal because that's the start of it all and the more people who go along socially with their gender dysphoria, the more likely that child is to then, you know, go on to the next step of of of of hormone blockers and, you know, eventually surgical do do, surgical changes to an otherwise, you know, healthy body, which we know from, from so many stories of detransitioners, that it's, it's such a regret of theirs and their life is forever changed from making a decision when they had an underdeveloped brain. You know, and we're really just needing likely to have someone walk through this with them and get to the root cause. Really is the big thing that I'm seeing not happen and that's really sad.

Jessica Tapia: 18:33

I came across a story the other day on a conservative teachers for America page on Facebook. If you don't follow it, it's a great page to be a part of. But someone shared a story about a young girl. She grew up with all male cousins and that was it.

Jessica Tapia: 18:55

She was the only girl in her family and all of a sudden in she's in middle school and she's beginning to transition, wanting to become a boy, and her parents, instead of going along with it, were, like you know, pump in the brakes, let's get you into therapy or counseling. Well, it comes out in in the counseling that her grandfather was abusing her and this was her, her protection mechanism. And if you think about that, that makes total sense, right? Because if she becomes a boy, you know the he will likely not want to, you know, have anything to do with her in that way anymore. And so how horrific is that that that could be the case for many of these children today, and we are to go along with it and not, you know, actually take care of the root issue, that is, that is causing such such pain and confusion in these children.

Mr. Webb: 20:06

I'm a middle school teacher and I have seen students that I had when they were in middle school and they were seeing. This has happened, you know, more than once they were seeing a counselor for something, for what I don't know, and then later, like in high school, I heard that they decided they were trans and some of them decided they were, you know, girl, decided she was a boy, then decided she was a girl again and, like I knew back when I had them in middle school that they were seeing a counselor for something. So to me that's just it's a symptom of some underage Underlying problem just like you said.

Mr. Webb: 20:54

And I'm not sure why when that comes up a parent, it's not a red flag for a parent that says let's see why this is happening. Why would you just go along with it? I don't understand that Exactly. But going back to something you said a minute ago, I wrote this word down. You actually you said some of your issues were, or, I guess, the reason you were let go, and if I'm not saying this exactly right, you correct me, but it was based on hypotheticals.

Jessica Tapia: 21:28

Well, again, the trigger, I guess you could say, was that the students finding my social media. But after that was, you know, investigate, quote, unquote, investigated, and these various outlandish allegations were brought from it. And I spoke to all of them. The school district actually, like, asked me to come back to work. But they said now you are to follow this plan of assistance and directives and you're going to be watched for 45 days for change of behavior. So it was there, in that second meeting with my school district, where I was essentially called back to work, but now, under directives, that really everything came to a halt for me.

Jessica Tapia: 22:19

Because, after learning of these directives, I had a huge decision to make, because to follow these directives they had placed on me really would be to, you know, ignore my personal convictions and beliefs and values and, as a Christian, what the word of God tells me how to live. And so I just simply spoke up about the directives. You know, rather than walking away and resigning because you know the directives didn't work for me, and rather than putting my head in the sand and just going along with them to save my job, I just chose to speak up and say you know, I'm ready to come back to work. But here's a few things you need to know that I won't be able to do. And so I said, you know I wouldn't. I wouldn't be okay with lying to students, like if I know I have a student that is female and it's on my roster that I'm given from the school district, but now that student is asking to be referred to something that I know they are not like, I'm not going to do the whole gender pronoun preference thing. That's lying and it's against my faith to lie. And then I'm also not going to withhold that information from parents. That's their child, not mine, and I'm also not going to.

Jessica Tapia: 23:55

And really, this directive actually came up at the end of my third meeting, which was a religious accommodation meeting, but I, you know, also had to tell them that I wouldn't be allowing males into the female locker room, and so, technically, there were four directives in total that I spoke up about. There was also the one about refraining from speaking to students about God or the Bible, and I also told them. You know it would be against my faith to do that, because my faith says that I am to always have an answer ready for the hope that I have for anyone that comes asking, and I've always done that, again in a legal manner. I remember going to college and learning exactly the parameters there in terms of bringing your faith in. Interestingly enough, that directive was dropped when I spoke out against the God directive.

Jessica Tapia: 25:01

So essentially the three in the end that they, you know, held a religious accommodation meeting with me for was the three essentially around. You know how I would handle transgender identifying students. So that religious accommodation meeting took place this January and they asked me all kinds of questions about my faith and my beliefs and really essentially it felt like they tried to see if I would bend in any sort of manner and change up the Answers I had already given them, which was no, I can't comply with these three things. And so After that third and final meeting, I I basically just received an email, you know, letting them know, or them letting me know they could not accommodate my religious beliefs and they put that in writing and Stated that I was being released from employment.

Mr. Webb: 26:12

And this is the basis of the legal battle, or this was the the basis of the lawsuit. Is that safe to say?

Jessica Tapia: 26:24

I don't know if Bethany wants to answer that.

Bethany Onishenko: 26:26

Yes, I was gonna say that's probably a good question for me to answer yeah. So our lawsuit takes all of those facts that Jessica just stated and we filed a complaint alleging discrimination under both the first amendment, title seven and the California Fair Employment and Housing Act. Because, like Jessica said, title seven as well as the Fair Employment and Housing Act require the district to Determine if there's any reasonable accommodations they can provide to accommodate Jessica's religious beliefs. And in this case they clearly stated we cannot accommodate you and didn't provide any Accommodations at all, which is just a clear violation of both title seven and the Fair Employment and Housing Act in California. So, yeah, we allege those that kind of discrimination, as well as discrimination under the first amendment, free speech and free exercise of religion.

Mr. Webb: 27:13

You know, it feels like Christians are the one, that's the ones that are supposed to accommodate everything and everybody, but it doesn't feel like we're.

Bethany Onishenko: 27:22

Often we're being accommodated, right, and what's what's crazy here is that, to my understanding and Jessica, you can Speak to this probably further but the district here allowed other teachers to speak out without punishment, but only as long as it aligned with the district's values in the district's agenda. And so once someone like Jessica speaks out in a way that they don't agree with, all of a sudden there's there's no accommodation that they can provide. Right tolerance only goes in one direction, I think.

Jessica Tapia: 27:51

Yeah, definitely, I can feel that and see that.

Mr. Webb: 27:58

Jessica, first of all, thank you for sticking up for your religious beliefs and this is a case that I hope. I hope it goes all the way to the supreme court, honestly, because then you know that decision in favor of the first amendment and Christians, christian beliefs, and you're sticking by your personal beliefs. That will help everybody. So I hope it goes your way, but I hope, hope it goes all the way to the supreme court. Right and, and just as a little caveat, we are very confident in the outcome of this case.

Bethany Onishenko: 28:30

Obviously we're litigating in California, where things can be a little bit hostile at times, but the supreme court has made very clear over the last few years that religious discrimination is not Okay, and especially including in the teacher in the sorry public education context. They've made that very clear that teachers, you know, do have first amendment rights, and so we are very confident in the outcome of this case and hope to take it up to the supreme court, as you stated. So what advice would you give teachers and parents who might run into?

Mr. Webb: 29:01

something where it conflicts with their religious beliefs.

Jessica Tapia: 29:06

Yeah, so I mean as as society and culture continue to progress, which, sadly, I've come to not like that term, because if this is progress, progress is a you know what Progressivism looks like. I want to go the opposite direction, I want to go back, but as, yeah, as things continue to progress, I mean I'm afraid things will get worse. And so it's really, really important, parents and teachers alike, that you decide now what, where you stand, where you draw the line. Decide Not only to to draw the line, but hold it. I mean, do what it takes to, you know, make sure that that you're defending your, your values, and you know what you know to be true and you know, be willing to, you know be willing to sacrifice if need be, to To stand for your freedoms.

Jessica Tapia: 30:26

You know, I often think of the men and women who have fought for our freedom, and here we all are enjoying them, right, but sadly, many times, when it's our turn to take a stand for them, we cower, and you know I don't know where everyone falls faith-wise, but you know, in the bible it says it's actually a sin to be a coward, and that's something that really actually helped me, um, take a stand when, when my beliefs were being attacked and I was being asked to forego them to. You know, be the be the teacher that my school district wanted me to be, um, which wasn't me, and um I, I remembered that that it's, it's a sin to be a coward and not stand and not have courage when, when I'm in the position where I need to do so. Um, so that would be my encouragement to parents and and teachers alike.

Mr. Webb: 31:37

Yeah, the bible also says I won't get this exactly right, but that, uh, whoever offends one of these little ones talking about, uh, children, it's better for that person that a millstone be hanged about their neck. Yeah, so to me that's. You know, folks that harm children, and part of what we're talking about harming children is, quite frankly, parents that allow their children to make life-altering decisions that could potentially, you know, harm or ruin their life. That, to me, is hurting a child.

Jessica Tapia: 32:14

Yeah, and gosh it's. It's certainly scary to think Of that verse being applied to a child's very own parents, but I mean that that is certainly the case if the parents are just Allowing them to walk down this dark, evil path, you know, full of lies and harm and confusion, rather than doing all that they can as their parent, as their guardian, as their caretaker to Um, you know, help them get well and help them towards a, you know, positive and bright future. Um, yeah, that is definitely a verse that Um has has been heavy on on my heart, in my mind. It's a verse that it's a verse that um we bring up often when we speak at school board meetings, as school boards here in in SoCal Consider, you know, bringing in various policies. That's one that's often brought up.

Mr. Webb: 33:27

I guess this question is for, uh, is for Bethany, before we close things out here. But Bethany, the advocates for faith and freedom. If A teacher found themselves in a situation similar to jessica's, can they reach out to you guys, no matter where they're at in the country, or what would you suggest?

Bethany Onishenko: 33:53

they do, oh, absolutely.

Mr. Webb: 33:54

Legally if they need some advice.

Bethany Onishenko: 33:56

Right. If they need any advice at all, yeah, they are free to reach out with us. We help teachers from all around the country all of the time and we have cases from all around the country. So our website advocatesforfaithcom I believe there's a little contact button where you can contact us and send us an email, and we try to reply to every single one. So if you're ever in a situation where you're questioning what your rights are, what you can do, or if legal action is necessary, we are here to help and happy to help, for sure.

Mr. Webb: 34:25

I appreciate both of you coming on and, jessica, is there anything you want the listeners to remember, if they don't remember anything else about this episode?

Jessica Tapia: 34:37

We are definitely living in a time of very evident spiritual warfare again. No matter where you stand like religiously or faith-wise, I think this battle between good and evil is very clear, very evident. People just feel it, feel the heaviness of it, and it can make for a confusing time with so many decisions, especially decisions surrounding educating your child. And so I would just say to not be lukewarm, not try to be kind of neutral or in the middle there of good and evil. Always go for good all the way and stand for the truth and just know that in the end, truth and goodness prevails.

Mr. Webb: 35:38

Now. I so appreciate you coming on the podcast and sharing your story with my listeners. I say it almost every episode, well, probably every episode letting the teachers know out there that you are not alone, and there's so many teachers that are scared to speak out. So I hope that you've given them a little hope and maybe caused them to be a little braver and for them to know that they can reach out to advocates for faith and freedom, and I'll make sure and put links to faith advocates for faith and freedom, like I did on the episode that me and you did together.

Bethany Onishenko: 36:20

Yes, that would be great.

Mr. Webb: 36:21

Jessica, is there anything on social media that anything you can share, you want folks to connect with?

Jessica Tapia: 36:28

Yeah, I'd love if they would like to follow along. I'm most active on Instagram. That's kind of where my story like took off and went viral. Have a lot of teachers that message me there and just follow along with my case there. My name is just I'm Jessica Tapia, i m, and then my name spelled out Jessica Tapia. I'm also new to Twitter, so I'm over there @realjesstapia and then I can also be found on Facebook and I believe that's actually my full name, Jessica Shaina Tapia, over on Facebook.

Mr. Webb: 37:11

And I'll make sure and include links to those to make it easier for folks to find you guys or to find you. Thank you so much for joining us today, jessica. It's been a pleasure having you on The Conservative Classroom and I know our listeners appreciate you sharing your story, so thank you so much Thanks for having me.

Mr. Webb: 37:31

That's it for today's episode of The Conservative Classroom. Thank you for tuning in and I hope you enjoyed it and learned something. If you liked what you heard, please don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. That would really help the podcast out. Most importantly, share this podcast with a like-minded educator, parent or patriot. You can also connect with us on social media and share your thoughts on today's topic by sending me an email at TheConservativeClassroom@gmail. com. We'd love to hear from you.

Mr. Webb: 38:08

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Mr. Webb: 38:20

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