Mr. Webb: 0:00

How can educational freedom help students and teachers? What if you could reshape education to truly fit every student's unique needs? What effect would school choice and competition have on public schools? Welcome to The Conservative Classroom, where we're teaching the truth and preserving our values. I'm your host, Mr. Webb, and I'm glad you're here.

Mr. Webb: 0:31

This podcast is a haven for conservative educators, parents and patriots like you, who believe in the importance of free speech, traditional values and education without indoctrination. Each week, we dive into issues that are plaguing our education system and keeping you up at night. In each episode, we offer common sense ideas to improve education in our classrooms and communities. You may feel like you're the last conservative educator or parent, but I want you to know that you are not alone. By the way, if you like what you hear today, please share this podcast with a like-minded educator, parent or patriot. Together, we can teach the truth and preserve our values. In today's episode, we're going to talk with Thomas Bingham, with the Grassroots Leadership Academy, and he's going to help us understand educational freedom. Now let's get started. Today, I'm excited to welcome a special guest to The Conservative Classroom Mr. Thomas Bingham. Thomas is a dedicated advocate for educational freedom and reform. He currently serves as a Senior Grassroots Trainer for Grassroots Leadership Academy. Thomas, thank you so much for joining us.

Thomas Bingham: 1:53

Well, thank you for having me on. I'm really happy to be here.

Mr. Webb: 1:57

I appreciate it and, to start, can you tell us a little about yourself, your background and what led you to the Grassroots Leadership Academy?

Thomas Bingham: 2:07

Sure. So kind of a long and eventful background. I remember telling my story years ago for people that are interested in the nonprofit political policy space and some people talk about taking the road less traveled. I might have taken that a little too much to heart. Originally born in Southern California, just out of Ventura County a great area to grow up in they have a lot of good schools Went to college out there, but I knew I wanted to one get out of California. Long story short.

Thomas Bingham: 2:35

Advocate for freedom Didn't quite have a pathway to do that. So I started getting involved in a lot of political campaigns, policy fights, to a lot of government work as a consultant, especially with local governments. Eventually I started working for other organizations. One that I started working with after consulting was I used to work for the NRA, worked a few election cycles with them making sure certain people won or lost elections. Eventually I moved to Northern Virginia and stayed there and worked for the Leadership Institute, which is run by Morton Blackwell, where I would train and educate conservatives how to run for office, campaign fundraise, tell their story, develop their wine. I did that for a few years and then I had an opportunity that came up with the Grassroots Leadership Academy, where I could have my hands in a lot of different organizations, a lot of policy fights, advocate for candidates but also help people run for office, build up potential Grassroots leaders.

Thomas Bingham: 3:40

And really something I'm really passionate about is talking about individual rights and freedom, and that eventually led me to for the last few years, especially in Virginia, to talk about educational freedom and I think, about a lot of my experiences I had back home working on a lot of policy issues, but just the last few years has been a very hot button, not really even a hot button, but a very popular subject and just seeing all the problems that really I think the problems that we've been having in the United States with our education system is really outdated. But the pandemic not only brought to light the issues but the way I've always kind of described it is. I think our education system is like an older car that's kind of held together with duct tape maybe has you know, we put some oil on it. Hope it doesn't, you know, break down. And I think the pandemic showed the problems with the education system and completely broke the system. So I think, moving out of the post-pandemic, there's no going back to 2019, and really we shouldn't, because we have an outdated education system that is preparing younger kids you know, younger kids, potentially future adults for a society that hasn't existed for decades. The entire world is changing at a really fast rate and the schools are just not preparing kids for a future workplace that you know we may not even foresee, or new innovations and technology that kids are just not prepared to use effectively.

Thomas Bingham: 5:01

And I mean now we're talking about with the post-pandemic, like kids being behind years, you know, years behind, dropping out of schools, and really this is an opportunity where, working in Virginia and I think we saw it with the most recent election in 2021 with Governor Junkin, he was able to bring Republicans, democrats, together over this issue and something I've been doing especially with the grassroots leadership academy I've been able to talk to communities all across the state and talking about really not just conservative audiences, but you know I might be in downtown Richmond talking to people that have maybe voted Democrat their whole life. They're saying like, hey, we have schools that are failing us, we're stuck in these zip codes without opportunities to move, and they're seeing all around that people that maybe, if they don't like their school system, people with money can easily pack up or go or pay extra money to go to an alternative school where you're seeing people in the middle class, people that are struggling to pay their bills. They don't have those options and they're in a very different mindset. Where kids are going to school with maybe a flight or fight mindset. They're not sure if they can safely go to school or if something bad is going to happen at the school boards or the administrator is going to cover things up, and what we're seeing is there's a craving for accountability.

Thomas Bingham: 6:14

There's people now paying attention to school board meetings which never really happened. I mean someone who's been involved in almost every level of government and school board meetings have largely gone uncontested, to the point where I would see personally almost a handoff of some of these seats. Now we're seeing a whole wave of parents like, no, I want to have a say in my kids' education, I care about their future and I think there's going to be a lot of opportunity there and I think if we can bring both Republicans and Democrats together, I think we can completely change our school system. Kind of a silver lining for the last three years is that we're now addressing this issue. We should have addressed it decades ago, but here we are now.

Mr. Webb: 6:52

So what exactly is outdated about the education system?

Thomas Bingham: 7:00

Sure. I mean you're seeing a lack of innovation. You're seeing not on new strategies, and it's just even the idea of just being able to go beyond just a brick and mortar setup. And what we're seeing is especially parents are like, hey, what if I want to go to a different school, whether it's in my county, or maybe I want to be able to use the taxpayer dollars already paid into the system, and it's like, hey, maybe their kid needs help. So when I think about this, for example, where I grew up, I went to a pretty good school. So I'm not saying I went to a bad school, but my sister was super smart so she was able to get into IB and advanced placement classes early to get what she wanted.

Thomas Bingham: 7:37

Where you're not seeing that in other areas and you're seeing this kind of resistance to even change. Where you're seeing a lot of political movement. People are like, if you, where teachers are like not all teachers, but some teachers are concerned that innovation may threaten their job. Or there's a lot of misinformation out there. Where educational freedom would actually empower teachers, like I know a lot of teachers that have worked with Grassroots Leadership Academy who want to have changes. They want to see the students they have succeed.

Thomas Bingham: 8:05

They want to have opportunities to move around the schools and we're seeing kind of this outdated, you know, brick and mortar setup that's working in some areas, barely getting by in other areas and other areas completely failing, and there's no alternative. So if you look at how the marketplace works, if there's a business failing to provide an adequate service, there'll be businesses that you can go to, and if they're not there, they will pop up because people are incentivized to make money. What we're seeing right now is there's not really competition, there's not really an incentive in some states to innovate. So you're seeing a lot of money go into parts of if you look at Virginia go in parts of Virginia and just other areas being completely abandoned and there's no accountability. So I think the outdated part is the lack of competition and the lack of availability that is out there.

Mr. Webb: 8:54

So educational freedom, it sounds like, would be a fix to this, so to speak. What is educational freedom? Let's start there, and then we'll get into some specifics about that.

Thomas Bingham: 9:09

Sure, when we're talking about a lot of the things going on in Virginia, one of the big things that is being pushed by a big coalition of people that may be center-right, center-left the governor has talked a lot about this when he campaigned is we're talking about ESAs educational savings accounts.

Thomas Bingham: 9:25

The idea is that the taxpayer dollars that are meant for the student will follow the student directly. If there's a student that wants, let's say, they go to a public school but they want to have a more advanced class, or maybe they're really struggling, maybe they have a disability, they can use that taxpayer dollars, if there is educational freedom in that state, to go where they need so they can succeed and not only keep up with other students but potentially move ahead or pursue what they're passionate about that's when we're talking about educational freedom is that we're moving beyond this. Your zip code determines your future. It shouldn't matter where I grew up. It shouldn't matter if I live in Los Angeles County or Ventura County. You should have the same access, or there was actually someone said this best. It was in a room full of people are on the left, on the right, and there's a Democrat that said, hey, I want to have the same freedoms in Richmond that Terry McAuliffe has for his kids.

Thomas Bingham: 10:23

Terry McAuliffe was former governor. He tried to run again against Youngkin failed. He's very wealthy, his kids are. They're really nice schools, but he just wanted to. He just wanted to have the same opportunities as he did. And that's when we're talking about educational freedom. We're not just talking about someone being able to pull their kid out of school. We're talking about empowering public schools if that's where you want to send your kid. We're talking about alternative schools, things that don't exist, maybe kids being able to test out and go into higher levels, and I think there's this kind of rigid setup that maybe made sense decades and decades ago. That maybe doesn't quite make sense.

Thomas Bingham: 10:58

And the other way I see it is I use this example too and got a lot of positive feedback was the way I get around town has changed a ton. For example, I think decades ago when I was first starting to drive I don't even remember if it was AOL or some other website we had to print off the map and just pray you don't miss the offerant, because then you're gonna have to drive back or you're gonna be really lost. And I remember the game changer was getting a Tom Tom. When I got a Tom Tom, I knew where I was going. I had an old car that was kind of beaten up. I worked on it myself. The speedometer didn't work, so the Tom Tom also acted as my speedometer. I thought it was the greatest thing ever.

Thomas Bingham: 11:36

Now I have a smartphone that will tell me where the weather is, reroute me through traffic, tell me if there's a speedlight camera or a stoplight coming up, and now actually, I just recently have a car that I rent out as one of my side gigs, and now I have a car that will drive itself, and if I can also watch TV at the same time. So just me getting around town in my lifetime I'm 35 now has changed radically in the school system. I think there's a lot of opportunity there and there's a lot of smart people. There's a lot of smart teachers, a lot of smart administrators, and what we wanna do is empower them, especially at the local level, to do some cool things, cause I kind of joke about this too, that I grew up watching all these Marvel movies and one day I would love to see someone be the next Iron man, and I think, as funny as it sounds, I think through educational freedom you will find people that will find their passions. Maybe they'll get some really cool innovations out of it, right?

Mr. Webb: 12:32

That sounds like a great idea, so the money would follow the student.

Thomas Bingham: 12:40

Absolutely so. In every state it's gonna look a little different how students are funded, but I know what we're looking at from Virginia the state dollars. Cause there's a huge concern when we were talking about this is it's like what would happen if a bunch of people opted out and a local school fails. I'm like, well, that hasn't really happened in Florida, that hasn't happened in Arizona. This is being implemented in some way or another in quite a few states. What's happening is it creates more accountability and most of the time, teachers and parents, administrators wanna keep their job and if they know, the taxpayer dollars can be pulled back or students can go somewhere else. That will create a huge shift in how they operate. So it's gonna be so. What we're talking about is the taxpayer dollars and it's gonna be different every state. Whatever is allocated per student can follow them to the school of their choice.

Mr. Webb: 13:33

And I've said for a long time and I've talked about it on the podcast, how you mentioned. I think your exact words were lack of competition and how the lack of competition is hurting our schools. For public schools, if there's no competition, there's no real incentive to get better. And if students left to go to the school of their choice, whatever that might be, and those dollars followed them, I do think if enough students left, it would hurt public schools initially, but then what would they do long-term to fix that, to get those students to come back? They would get better. I think they would maybe get rid of tenure so they could get rid of some bad teachers, get some good teachers in. I mean, if you followed that line of thought, there's a lot of improvements that could happen that are probably not gonna happen as long as there's no competition.

Thomas Bingham: 14:37

Yeah, and another thing is it may come down to basic public safety. There could be bad teachers doing bad things or there's gang violence. I know my dad like growing up like lower middle class. I grew up in a nice area but my parents had to work really hard because my dad lived in LA where they had gang wars. My dad saw a lot of that when he was a kid and full-on shootouts in the streets and the reason why we moved over one county when I was growing up and saying with my little sister is they my dad. Of course I think every parent wants to make sure their kids have a better future and my dad had to deal with a lot of things but he made sure I went to a good school where I wouldn't be attacked, I wouldn't have to figure out which gang is doing what on what day, and I think if you see a lot more options like that, there's gonna be huge incentive. If there's a public safety risk, those schools are gonna invest in better security, better safety equipment and not prevent violence from happening. Because you're seeing, in some of these areas they're completely neglected and it's not like there's an alternative. And where I grew up in Ventura County and you're seeing a lot of nice areas and good zip codes.

Thomas Bingham: 15:43

There is competition, like where I grew up in Ventura County. We had great schools. We ran head to head with actually the charter schools, the private schools, and we would actually academically outperform them. I remember being at Newbury Park High School. They would do better than some of the other private schools. Now, when it came to the football and some of the other sports, I think the private schools actually did really well.

Thomas Bingham: 16:04

So there were some trade-offs. So when it came to sports they're probably a little better, but when it came to academics and where kids were going, our public schools had to compete with that because there's people where I grew up that had money and they're like, hey, if you're not delivering, there's this school right down the road with the prestige and the nicer stuff. So the public schools change gears and that was the thing they promoted like all year. They're like, hey, someone got accepted to some Ivy League school, some private school or got a full ride. And a lot of the administrators at the school I went to were really awesome. They would fight tooth and nail to make sure kids that were doing well got scholarships and then they would promote that to keep people from going to private schools. So there is competition in some areas even without educational freedom, but it's only for those that are connected in nice areas with people with money. It's not for everyone, and what we wanna do is make sure there's competition for everyone.

Mr. Webb: 16:59

So what are the barriers that limit educational choice or educational freedom right now in the school system?

Thomas Bingham: 17:09

I mean, a lot of these are gonna be state by state and a lot of states don't even allow for educational freedom to exist, like right now we're talking about it in Virginia. It does not have educational freedom. They have very limited access to some alternatives, but right now, and for ESAs, it doesn't exist. For example, if you want your kid in a different school, you might have to move, sell your house, make a lot of money to make sure if you're paying for an alternative and still pay the taxpayer dollars into a system that maybe you agree with or not, and that's something we're trying to change. We're seeing a there's a lot of states that are pushing forward with some sorts of reforms. I know right now West Virginia just passed the Hope Scholarship, which is massive. It is probably one of the best ESAs that just passed recently. And the way I see West Virginia I think a lot of people say some things about it, but I see them as a huge. They're like a rebuilding year, like if Aaron Rogers didn't get injured with the jets, they would be like the jets right now they're passing. Right now they're phasing out the income tax. They're making it more business friendly. They have the Hope Scholarship trying to get people from Maryland and Virginia to come into their state.

Thomas Bingham: 18:18

Politically a lot of things are changing. I know Florida has ESAs that passed in their state, so we're seeing already a lot of success. But a lot of the barriers are coming at the state level. I'm sure there's some pushback at the federal level, but a lot of states are. I think there's just fear to innovate and change, and it's understandable. I mean, anytime there's a new technology, a new piece of legislation, or there's always this fear that society would end and society would crumble or our entire future would be doomed. But I think at this point we try to do a whole society on Zoom and we've caused so much damage we can only go up from here. And that's the way I see it and I think that's why there's been this huge shift. So right now it's getting good bills passed.

Thomas Bingham: 19:06

Virginia we're gonna have some challenges to get an ESL, the governor's, on board. We gotta get something to his desk. I think I'm gonna be an optimist. I think there are some Democrats on board with some sort of ESAs. Just a matter of getting things out of committee. We see a lot of these bills good or bad, or somewhere in the middle. They die in committees. And this is what we're doing, our sister organization especially, americans for Prosperity. They're connecting parents to who the policy champions are, but they're also reminding people who are the ones standing in the way and making sure that they get their voices heard, they show up to vote and they're getting good bills passed. So I think one of the barriers is getting good policy out of state capitals. There's probably some issues. There's quite a few issues, probably with DC too, but that's a whole longer conversation. But I'd say a lot of the barriers are gonna be in state capitals and getting bills passed.

Mr. Webb: 19:58

If you can tell us more about the Hope Scholarship, and is this something other states can do?

Thomas Bingham: 20:05

Absolutely so. A quick little summary of the Hope Scholarship. So what's really unique about this? So in some states that have some form of ESAs, there's usually a lot of barriers where a parent has to jump through it. I know there's a story not too long ago when Arizona just passed their version of the Hope Scholarship. They didn't really promote it as well and a lot of the schools were kind of putting up barriers saying like oh well, you have to do this and this and you have to file this paperwork.

Thomas Bingham: 20:35

What this does for the Hope Scholarship it still has all these safety mechanisms to make sure the taxpayer dollars are spent properly. But what it's saying is it applies to just about everyone. If you've been in the public school system I think it's for about a year or so you can apply for the Hope Scholarship and all the funds from the ESA can travel the student. So if you have a student that maybe is really smart and really should be getting a head start on college, you can use an ESA as you see fit for these type of approved schooling to move ahead. If you have a kid that's really struggling maybe they have a disability you can use that ESA and you can move forward with it.

Thomas Bingham: 21:13

I think it's a very I think it's definitely could be a model. There's a lot of states you can use, like Florida and Arizona, but I think the Hope Scholarship is a big change, because if there's a state that really needs to improve their educational system, it's West Virginia. They have a lot of struggles they've been dealing with for at least the last few decades, if not more, but I think this is going to be a big shift, which is why I made that comparison about being in a rebuilding year if there were the jets.

Mr. Webb: 21:41

Right. So ESA Educational Savings Account. How can someone set an ESA up? Is it only available in certain states? And how would someone if they're listening and that sounds like something they might want to check into what?

Thomas Bingham: 22:00

would be the first step.

Thomas Bingham: 22:02

So it's going to be state by state. So the first thing you want to do is you want to look up your state If there's some form of it. I know there's quite a few websites. If you're in West Virginia you can go right to the Hope Scholarship West Virginia site. I actually have it up on my computer. If not, you could just quickly Google search it and you'll see the state government. They actually have the whole process that defines what it is, what are the requirements, what's the eligibility and how you can use the funds down to the dollar amount. So it's going to vary state to state. That might be a much deeper conversation if you go through that, but I mean you could always reach out to me and I could always plug you to the right organization that specializes in that.

Mr. Webb: 22:44

All right, and backing up to something we talked about a minute ago, I wanted to make sure to ask you this when you were talking about, I guess, the things that limit educational choice, trying to get good bills passed you said they died committees. What role or what effect does the teachers unions have, in your opinion, in blocking these sort of bills from going through?

Thomas Bingham: 23:16

That's going to vary state by state. I know some states teacher unions may wildly oppose it. I know there's big pushes pushback in Virginia about or not in Florida about it. Eventually the USA is what passed. I think moving forward, one thing that would work best, especially if we want to get this passed, is winning over teachers, if possible. They have a huge interest. I mean, I think there's kind of this false choice that we see in really any policy fight. It's like one way of the highway Team red, team blue. You're either a pro teacher or pro student. Really you could be both.

Thomas Bingham: 23:50

I think educational freedom is going to help teachers. It provides more job opportunities. That could be, you know, in that public school system or not. It's going to allow teachers to specialize if they're really good, if they're specialized in let me think of ASL, for example. Maybe a teacher can pursue that passion when I say ASL, american Sign Language. There's a lot of opportunity here and I think that we need to do a better job of reaching out to teachers, bringing them to our side. And if the unions are on board too, that's great. But I think they're definitely a barrier.

Thomas Bingham: 24:24

But I think sometimes you'll see some governors that are going to maybe be a little bit more partisan and rally against teachers, which I think is a very poor move, because there's a lot of teachers on board. I mean there's a lot of teachers in our coalition. I mean, when I was in Richmond talking about ESAs, I had teachers in the group that are in the middle school talking to me about the problems. A lot of it was public safety. That was a huge concern. It was funding, overcrowding, not having the correct resources. So I think if we can present it in such a way and you'll see some states that do a really good job of this. I know Governor Yonkin was really good. He wasn't just talking about ESAs but he was talking about bringing teachers on board. He was talking about better pay, better safety. You know safety conditions, especially for teachers that are in rough districts.

Thomas Bingham: 25:10

So I think if we can bring them on board, I think a lot of those barriers and getting those bills out of committee will pass, because in some states if you take a, you know a more harsher tone to teachers in general, it's going to be really hard to get out of the committee and it's really easy as a politician if there's not a grassroots movement there to hold their feet accountable. It's really easy to let a bill die, then take a tough vote, and I think that's part of the problem. So you have to keep the pressure on the representative to remind them like, hey, this isn't about, you know, a brick and mortar school. This isn't about any one particular organization. This is ultimately about the kids and about parental rights we want to have.

Thomas Bingham: 25:49

What we're fighting for is we want to have so many options for parents and kids that, instead of you're facing a bad choice or another one, you're facing great choices and you can't even decide which school is the best it may come down to.

Thomas Bingham: 26:02

You know, one kid's really specialized in, let's say, math and really, you know the sciences are going to be his future, maybe over here, and maybe, if there's someone more well rounded and wants to play sports, maybe they go to different school. That's the future we're fighting for, and I think we have to bring teachers on board and make sure to let them know like, hey, this isn't, you know, us versus you. This is like we're all on the same team, we're all part of this community, and I think that's going to be a huge barrier, and maybe I'm just trying to be an optimist at times, but I just find a lot of policy fights there's this kind of just nasty partisan, even if there's a disagreement. One detail and I think if we can move beyond that we could find a lot of common ground either to get a full ESA pass or, you know, steps in that direction to maximize opportunities for everyone.

Mr. Webb: 26:50

Right, there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. To use an expression I've heard oh yeah, all my life.

Thomas Bingham: 26:58

That reminds me of another West Virginia example. We had a tax reform fight and it was really tempting to be like well, we have this bill passed one of the houses overwhelmingly we're not going to compromise but was back and forth, some grassroots lobbying, bringing people together, we were able to get a bill that phases out the tax income tax in five years and it was a pretty good bill. There's some things that you know we would have preferred. I mean, we're just well. We quickly realized like hey, we're debating good to great and let's, instead of like getting nothing, why don't we go with a good bill and then we can build upon that down the line.

Thomas Bingham: 27:34

Like we're not picking a good or bad bill, it's like, hey, these are both pretty good options, what's going to get out of a committee? And it was really one committee member that had some concerns and second guy committee, it went right to the governor's desk. So I absolutely I think that's a great quote you just said there. And you know, I think sometimes we can have a more, a lot more policy wins, but we can have a much better just political discussion if we can keep that in the back of our mind. I mean just being in this field so long I've just. You know, I'm sure there's times when you need to take a tough fight and all that, but not everything's do or die, and we see that in a lot of political things. Where one disagree, it's like you know, you create enemies for life.

Mr. Webb: 28:16

Right and I think a key you said get the, get the teachers on board, and I think that's key. I know in a lot of rural areas you know I'm in Kentucky and a lot of the rural areas the largest employer in in a county is the school system. So if you've got teachers against you for some reason, you know that's a that's a huge group and if you can get some of them on board, I think what happens and this is speaking as a teacher I think the teachers unions scare a lot of teachers today. Even teachers that are conservative listen to, to what's being said. They're a little afraid of school and the voice because they've been told that, hey, the students leave, you know your jobs in jeopardy, the, you, only all the good students will leave and you'll just have the, the troublemakers and this. And you know they use fear a lot to kind of control what they think.

Mr. Webb: 29:23

But I believe if teachers would look at this open minded and think about it and this is not an original thought, what I'm fixing to say I saw someone on social media, a fellow teacher. I wish I could remember who was so I could give them credit for it. But they were talking about how we usually talk about, how school choice is good for students. But they followed that logic through how competition, you know, in businesses it creates more businesses and they're competing not just for customers but for the best employees. So if we had school choice and you touched on this I think it would be good for the students, but also we hopefully would get to the point where schools, whether it's a charter school or a private school or a public school, would start competing for the best teachers, and that, to me, that's going to elevate all of us.

Thomas Bingham: 30:27

Yeah, I mean I see that in the nonprofit world, where you know nonprofits and if only way, will compete with each other for better, you know staff members, or better senior staff they're like, hey, we can offer more pay, we can offer you more time off or better benefits, and absolutely right. I think there should be talked about where it helps everyone, whether you're a teacher, whether you're in administrative, on the administrative side, you're a TA, or if you're in school to become a teacher and you're going through the road, so you may want to have as many opportunities and maybe you know, just look at the last few years. I mean, populations have been shifting all across the US, so if you present it, it's like, hey, if you have to move, you don't just like lose your livelihood, you know this one state, you can go anywhere. And as if you're willing to work and provide the best you know Opportunities, make sure kids succeed. We want to make sure you're paid to the maximum amount. I mean I want to see teachers make a lot more money, have a lot more benefits and Be a lot happier.

Thomas Bingham: 31:29

And it's it's something you brought up and since, now that I know you're you mentioned in Turkey, reminds me of a forget what race it was a few years ago, but I remember a particular candidate had some Pretty rough things to say about some of the teacher unions and even though it was a red state, there's some, there's some political pushback and it was. I remember watching that and it was like, wow, this was a lost opportunity, could have this one representative could have talked about bringing people together. Instead, he took more of a Us versus them mindset and it really didn't go well and that's something I want to avoid. And when I think about bringing teachers on board, I remember during the pandemic my next to mind she's still a friend of mine her mom was in one of the states that opened up early and is a blue state and she, with other union members, said like, hey, we have to reopen the school sooner and there's kind of some pushback like state shut down forever.

Thomas Bingham: 32:24

And she actually had one of the strongest arguments I heard. That kind went public and she said, hey, we can operate safely. Still protect against covid. But we're seeing what's going on on camera. We see kids are not being fed properly there, bad things happening. We know some of these kids never got the laptops are promised because the parents may have taken them and sold it off for whatever it's like we know the conditions at home or in the community are so dangerous, we know at least if they're in school they're safe.

Thomas Bingham: 32:53

we actually could make sure they're fed. If there's something wrong, some sort of abuse, it can be addressed. But they're like we can't address this over zoom and we can't allow this to happen. And one thing they did is they made sure parents and it's like hey, if you want to have your kid at home, do whatever you want, that's up to you. But you know kids that need help the most. They're welcome to come back in a. Now they still have the mass and some of the other things, but they were able to get fed properly and they know some of the kids they lost some weight because they weren't eating well at home.

Thomas Bingham: 33:21

So I think we can do a lot of things by just not empowering parents or kids but Powering teachers and administrators. Because you know it's not easy to be a teacher, it's not easy to go through All the schooling and someone going through that wants to improve a whole generation, to make sure that. You know the United States is still that. You know shining hill in the city, that we're still, you know, a place where people want to come to do business, have maximum Individual rights, freedom of speech, and you know this is something that we have an opportunity to do, a lot of things. I'm just, you know why make sure that we're moving forward, moving the ball forward for educational freedom and not just kind of Settling for the status quo and watching a you know. Even more problems pop up post, you know, in the post pandemic world.

Mr. Webb: 34:03

Right, something you said made me think about homeschooling. So where does homeschooling and homeschool co-ops where? Where does that fall into play here?

Thomas Bingham: 34:17

Yeah, I mean it's definitely part of that conversation. I know we work with homeschool groups. I know there's some challenges like what role does government play with homeschooling? I think that's another great opportunity, even if it's some sort of hybrid or someone's fully you know, being homeschooled at home. I know there's one thing I saw actually out here that's unique is being in northern Virginia, especially Arlington.

Thomas Bingham: 34:41

There was a lot of like neighborhood homeschooling groups that popped up because they found like kids were just playing video games all day, falling behind, so they're able to safely have kids, you know, maybe only be like five or 10 people, get together, socialize, still, do all the normal stuff. So I think homeschooling is a really valuable tool. I also think I mean just looking at the last few years, the interest or parents moving towards homeschooling is skyrocketed, because what we're seeing is in states where there isn't educational freedom, it's kind of like your opportunities are based in this zip code. If you don't like it, you can either be homeschooled or move. You're seeing parents like, all right, well, if you're not meeting my needs, there's no competition. I'm going to take on the role for myself and I know some of my friends that did it. It was. It was a huge shift for them and they're having a lot of success and it's it's a lot of work, like they did all the research and made sure they're prepared for it. But I think I think it's homeschooling is even more popular because of lack of options.

Thomas Bingham: 35:38

I'm not saying homeschooling is bad. I think there's a lot of opportunities there. I know Generation Joshua is really good about it. There's a lot of national networks that help parents out, but they're definitely part of that conversation and I think there's. I think, if we allow for educational freedom, there may be things that we can talk about, every type of opportunity for educational freedom, but there may be things that we've never even considered that may be pop up. Someone has a great idea to help someone learn. If someone has a, you know, when I think about how I learned things when you were talking about math, it remind me of being in a geometry class and I may be pretty blunt like I learned just enough how to not fail the class.

Thomas Bingham: 36:16

That would be very transparent, but I did learn geometry when I was helped my parents remodel their house. They didn't have enough money to pay someone. My parents like, hey, you're 18. You're going to college, you can live here, you know you don't have to pay rent. But you're, you know, if you're not going to pay rent, you're going to do some construction and remodeling and some other heavy duty stuff and you're going to learn some lifelong skills and ride off the bat.

Thomas Bingham: 36:36

My dad's like all right, get the measurements in this room, do the you know, do all the formulas, figure out how much hardwood you need to buy and other supplies. And I couldn't do that. My dad's like you took geometry. I'm like I'm like I may be honest, like I got a lot of trouble because I didn't do well. And he's like well, you're going to learn today.

Thomas Bingham: 36:53

And I learned really fast because when I had incentive, I've been short attention span. I saw the why and I knew the longer I didn't get my room done, the longer I sleep on a couch in a dirty living room with all this construction stuff around me. So I learned really fast and it was a lot of hands on learning. So there's every kid's going to learn different and I think homeschooling works for some may not work for others. Some are going to learn well in the public school, some are going to learn on a hybrid style. I know I'm very much a hands on learner and you know I prefer to, you know, kind of get my hands or find that why, or find a way to kind of trick my mind to stay focused.

Mr. Webb: 37:30

Homeschoolers. You know they're not sitting with with books and like from for this hour you're going to study math and then for the next hour you're going to study biology. It's, it's not that rigid. They're doing a lot more hands on. So I think it's great. But I think and I hadn't thought of this, but I think you're right I think one reason homeschooling has increased is because there is lack of choice. And I wonder, if there is, if there's more educational freedom, if you'll see a lot of these students at our homeschooled go back to the school system. Whether that's good or bad, I just wonder. I think you might be onto something. There is what I'm saying.

Thomas Bingham: 38:20

Yeah, and every parent's gonna be different. Everyone's gonna have a different reaction. I mean, you might see some of that. You might see some hybrid setups where it's like, all right, you're gonna be homeschooled, you're gonna do this and this, but you're gonna go over to this college if you wanna do something more advanced or maybe you wanna do something automotive like when we're talking about this I was thinking about when I worked on cars and people were like, oh, did you just have that mindset?

Thomas Bingham: 38:43

I'm like no, my dad's an engineer. I was just a poor college student and I need to get to work and do multiple jobs and get around. So if the car didn't work run, I'd be in trouble. So I learned a lot of that stuff hands-on and so that stuff really stuck with me. So again, every student's different.

Thomas Bingham: 39:02

I know just sometimes, being in public school, like some of the classes I loved, sometimes just short attention span my parents were like you can't have whatever medicine. They would give you Adderall or anything like that. So sometimes I just felt like my mind was shutting down or I was drinking a ton of caffeine to compensate for that. But when I was able to move around or just be hands-on with projects, like some of the teachers were pretty good and they picked up on that and they're like, oh, he's not a bad student, he's just like, ah, his parents are not giving him medicine, fine, we'll just get him moving. And some like at least standing up, and that was usually a game changer for me. Sometimes sitting still was. I was either antsy or like I wanted to take a nap and I'm like these are both bad situations.

Thomas Bingham: 39:44

I'm trying to avoid that and, yeah, I think you have a point. I think there's so many options and maybe you might see, let's say, someone has a family of four, maybe one kid's home school, one kid's in a public school, maybe another kid is in some hybrid of a setup. So I think educational freedom could just open up so many doors for really everyone and that's what I'm excited about. It's, like I said, like there's this huge opportunity and this huge kind of mental shift where five, 10 years ago this was like a cool opportunity to talk about in some states or certain areas or certain situations, but not as many people are bought in as they are now. And it doesn't matter if you're Northern Virginia, loudoun, richmond and a rural community. There's an appetite for this and I think we like especially the work I'm doing, the coalitions I'm working with. I think we can get a lot of opportunities past, not just in Virginia but all across the country if we're willing to work together.

Mr. Webb: 40:42

So how do you address concerns about well, if there's more educational choice, that might lead to less accountability? I know that's one objection I've heard.

Thomas Bingham: 40:57

Yeah, that one comes up quite a bit. That hasn't really been a concern a lot of states because these funds are very tightly controlled and every state. It's not like you're just having someone send you a Venmo account for five $10,000, and you're gonna just have a great vacation with it. These funds are in a government-controlled account a lot of states. When you spend that money it has to be approved in some capacity, like they have to see the paper trail, or you have to keep some sort of receipts and there are criminal penalties if you misuse these funds. So that one comes up quite a bit.

Thomas Bingham: 41:32

And I know another one that comes up quite a bit is what if a school shuts down? They're like, oh well, if you have this, the school that's been here forever, it's gonna close its doors and we have this abandoned building. I'm like, well, that's not quite always the case. And two, that might be an opportunity for another school to take it over. It's like if a business fails and another business moves in, like I know where I grew up in my hometown, like Sears had some opportunities but over time it wasn't really meeting the needs of the community. It was taken over by another business that's booming, paying taxes actually maintaining the parking lot and the streets around it.

Thomas Bingham: 42:08

And there's another story that I saw just recently where there's a school that shut down. Another school didn't take it over, but there's still a huge housing crisis really in most areas in the United States and this one particular area. A bunch of millennials got together, pulled out a loan, raised some money. They actually turned it into an apartment complex and had a lot of the facilities that they can use to draw in people to help move in and to help drive down costs for rent in the area. So there's definitely some. There's always gonna be some risks that I know how money is used comes up quite a bit, but that hasn't really been the case. They're tightly controlled and there are severe legal consequences if you somehow were to misuse the funds. But these are not just like I think it's not someone, it's not like a checks just be an issue. Didn't you do whatever you want with it?

Mr. Webb: 43:01

Right, so here's another one. What if all the quote unquote good kids leave the public school? What if the smartest and the brightest and the best behaved? What if they are the ones that leave the public school?

Thomas Bingham: 43:19

I mean that's definitely another one that comes up quite a bit. It's not really a case because again it's gonna force the public school. It's like, hey, how do I keep talent here, how do I keep the kids here? Is it something that's concerned about safety concerns? Is there something else going on? And if kids are fleeing the area and if parents and record numbers are pulling them out, there might be a bigger issue. There could be a crime issue. There could be asbestos in the walls and kids are being poisoned. Maybe that school should not exist or it maybe needs to be remodeled.

Thomas Bingham: 43:47

It will force with competition. It's gonna force a lot of these schools to pay attention to teachers. Where I'm seeing in some states not only do they ignore the teachers you go to the school board meeting, they'll just cut the mics, they'll ignore it, they'll walk out and even if they're blatantly guilty of a criminal act or just disregarding community concerns. So I think competition's gonna hold that and, using the example of where I grew up, the private schools had a lot of opportunities and there's a lot of well-off, wealthy people that moved into my community I was. When I grew up there, my parents bought at the right time and then their house double tripled and beyond in value. But a lot of the parents wanted to take their kids to a public school because they had to be more competitive. If they weren't, they were gonna lose even more students. But actually a lot of the good kids that went to awesome schools did some good things for their life. Some of them even went to the NFL. They went to the public school I went to.

Mr. Webb: 44:42

I love what you said. It forces the public schools to do better. That may not be exactly how you ordered it, but that's pretty close. I've got to remember that because that answers a lot of the what-ifs for school choice. I think A lot of scenarios you can come up with. Your answer could be to that. Well, that forces public schools to do better.

Thomas Bingham: 45:04

And not only that. It's, let's say, the teachers like hey, I wanna keep these kids here, I don't have the resources. If you have competition, they're gonna be like we're gonna lose all these students. I better if a teacher A wants supplies, anything else, they need an assistant. I'm gonna make sure that happens so we keep that tax dollars there.

Thomas Bingham: 45:23

There's a safety concern. It's like, hey, I may work with the local police department on a better security system to make sure kids are not terrified to go to school. It may be like the teacher is like I'm gonna leave. I might go to another school and that school may be like hey, what if I pay you more money? Or what if I give you more vacation time? Or maybe it's like, hey, you wanna go, maybe go back to school and specialize in this field so you can help students be more successful in this field or with these issues. Maybe it will help you get that. Or maybe we have a partnership with that college where we can get most of the tuition waived, or some other partnership that can occur.

Thomas Bingham: 46:00

I mean, this is something that could help a lot of people. I mean, if you're the only business in town and you have a near monopoly and government protection, you would never. Someone would never innovate. Like, when I think about some of the side businesses I have, like one of them running out vehicles I always have to adjust what I'm doing, whether it's service I'm providing. Innovate, find that different way to do that, have smart pricing. Sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm really missing the mark with the prices I have here. I better, like, readjust it, or maybe I need to clean my car better, or no one will rent these cars from me. Yeah, so these are. I think it's gonna really it's gonna force someone to address a problem where, if there's no competition, you may let facilities get bad. The AC system maybe never gets fixed, and that's definitely a big one that comes up, but it's a valid concern, but it's something that's very easily addressed.

Mr. Webb: 46:52

I think if we saw a boom in school choice, I think a lot of issues that we just kind of accept, I think we would see schools and school districts start fixing issues that we kind of just accepted as well. That's just the way things are, and I think it would just be a good thing. Crt, you know, critical race theory, dei, different things that have crept in. I feel like if there was school choice, if those things really were better for the students, we'd see that, and if not, we would see those fall by the wayside. Well, maybe we should not do this, maybe we should get rid of this, maybe we should focus more on teaching the basics of what these students need.

Thomas Bingham: 47:45

Yeah, or you'd at least see a marketplace ideas where whether it's the students, the teachers, some combination where they can argue what the best idea. I mean, that's a point of not just K through 12, but, like college, it's like we wanna have these new awesome ideas. What we're seeing is, in some cases, without competition, the teacher's like, well, this is what I believe, this is what you will believe, or you'll get an F. Or maybe there's a teacher's like hey, maybe we just should teach the basics, but they may have to accept something else. I think with the competition you're gonna be able to be like you might see teachers speak up about things that are going wrong, cause they know like, hey, if there's something not being addressed, there might be another opportunity better out there, or there might be another school in the area that's gonna pay way more money. And let me speak what I feel one way or the other, and I think it's a win for everyone, whether you're conservative or liberal. But absolutely what we're seeing is a lot of school districts, teachers are afraid to even speak up.

Thomas Bingham: 48:43

I mean, I remember working with some teachers and like, hey, we could I trained someone how to do some basic lobbying go to the state capital. But they're terrified. They're like I might lose my job over this just for having an opinion that wasn't even related to education. And I'm like, well, it's not like your first amendment, like one of your teachers want. I mean, wouldn't your students wanna see a teacher getting involved in your state capital, whether they agree with you or not? I'd be inspired by that. I mean, that inspired some of the work I did. I had teachers that were former representatives in some case, even if wildly disagreed with them. It was like, oh, there's not only you do in this, but like anyone could be part of the system. I mean that gives also kids hope. They might even kid, maybe like, oh, I like what you did, but I'm gonna go to school and do it just as well, or maybe have a different strategy. I think that's where educational freedom comes in. But yeah, there's a lot of, I think, fear of just even addressing basic issues.

Mr. Webb: 49:37

So one of my final questions for you is for our listeners, who maybe are passionate about this issue or we've raised some good points and they're fired up now about school choice. Maybe they're in an area where there's not educational freedom. What are some steps they can take? What are some things they can do to support and advocate for educational freedom in their community and their school district in their states?

Thomas Bingham: 50:10

Yeah. So there's a quote that I want to say real quick that I actually got from a representative in Wisconsin. I remember talking to a bunch of high school students trying to make a pitch for certain policy issues I think at times it was also education. They weren't as inspired I'm not going to lie but this guy came up, he was partnering with me and he had a really good quote. He said told everyone, if you're not at the dinner table, you're on the menu. All the kids immediately stopped playing with their phones, looked at us and he said it multiple times. He tripled down on it. He said there are people, not just in the state capital but in DC, that will tell you how to live your life, what your kids will do, whether or not you have individual rights, whether or not you're going to face a fine or years in jail, and if you're not part of the public policy process, someone else is going to tell you what is going to happen. So my pitch would be just kind of the same thing as that quote is get involved. There are local groups based off of certain people's political preferences. You can also work with us Grassroots Leadership Academy. We're always here to help you.

Thomas Bingham: 51:13

I know there's a lot of people like well, where do I start to lobby? Where do I get to know my representative? We are weird. People live and breathe. Building community is building grassroots leaders advocating for freedom. I mean, when I go to sleep at night I'm thinking about it. It could be on a weekend with friends, somewhere fun, and it's in the back of my mind, or I might even be pulling out my phone and figuring out the next flight I'm going to. So I'll be. You know. I'll have all my information in the summary below. Feel free to contact me. I'd be happy to connect with someone.

Thomas Bingham: 51:42

But one thing I really want to stress we need more people involved, not just in the you know, any level of election, but especially those school board conversations. Even if you're running for office, whether you're testifying, whether you're involved with your state elections. These are really important and a lot of these decisions that people are upset about are made at the local level and it's also made at the state level. But getting involved is absolutely necessary and I know a lot of people hate the public policy process but, like I said, if you're not part of it, someone is going to tell you what your kids are going to learn and what kind of future they have. So if you're a parent concerned about this, get involved, and we're here to help you in any way possible.

Mr. Webb: 52:21

And if you're not at the dinner table, you're on the menu. So, thomas, what's the one thing you want the listener to remember, if they don't remember anything else about this episode?

Thomas Bingham: 52:33

Well, besides, you know, being at the dinner table, just remember the people in your community, regardless of how they lean one way or another, they are part of your community and find ways to talk about your why. Talk about you know you storytelling, talk about what's going on in the schools, and I think that will go a long way to humanize you to other people. I mean at this point you see people fighting each other with talking points, nastiness, insults, and you know I'm not saying all of it, you know you shouldn't do it at all. I'm just saying, if you're able to tell your story and if you're able to connect with people, you're able to talk about how we can help parents, teachers, kids. We want everyone involved and empower everyone. I think we'll get a lot more educational freedom in a lot of states and again, we shouldn't be stuck in this false choice one way or the other, and it shouldn't be in us versus them. Teachers are, you know they care about the students. Parents care about their own kids. I think we're all on the same page. We want what's best for our kids.

Thomas Bingham: 53:30

So, if you don't remember anything else, just remember like this is about the kids. We want to move the ball forward. We want you guys, we want everyone involved in the public policy process so we have the best schools, regardless if you're in the wealthiest parts of Northern Virginia or whether you're in Southwest Virginia, virginia Beach, richmond, it really should it matter. We want to maximize everyone's potential because if we're not doing that, you're going to have a whole generation of people that are going to be struggling and think about all the cool innovations we can have and that can potentially save people's lives or improve the quality of ours as we're, especially as we're getting older.

Thomas Bingham: 54:05

Cause I think there's a quote from there was it Ferris Bueller's days? They I think it's Ferris Bueller is one is a movie from the. No, it was a breakfast club. The guy was panicked because he was. He was like these kids will be. You know our leaders. They're going to be presidents and just remember, these people will be presidents and representatives and we have a duty to make sure they have the best education possible.

Mr. Webb: 54:29

So, as we wrap things up, Thomas, can you tell us, or can you share with us, where they can find more information? Connect with you on social media, tell us about any projects you have upcoming or information how to contact the GLA. So this is your time to plug anything you want to.

Thomas Bingham: 54:50

Sure. So in the comments below I'm going to put my Instagram. I'm also going to put my email. It's capital T, capital B, I N G, h, a M at AFP, hqorg. If you want to talk a little bit more and how it can help you, or where I can connect to you, or really any other coalition partner that can help for advocating for freedom, feel free to go from there and you know, the rest of the information will be down below and I look forward to hearing from you.

Mr. Webb: 55:18

Awesome. I appreciate that and I'll make sure and put links in the show notes. So thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a pleasure having you on The Conservative Classroom and I know our listeners will appreciate your insights on educational freedom. I know I learned something, so I appreciate you coming on. Thank you so much.

Mr. Webb: 55:39

That's it for today's episode of The Conservative Classroom. Thank you for tuning in and I hope you enjoyed it and learned something. If you liked what you heard, please don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. That would really help the podcast out. Most importantly, share this podcast with a like minded educator, parent or patriot. You can also connect with us on social media and share your thoughts on today's topic by sending me an email at TheConservativeClassroom@gmail. com. We'd love to hear from you If you feel that education without indoctrination and teaching the truth is important to preserve traditional values and support my efforts to keep the conservative classroom running.

Mr. Webb: 56:29

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