Mr. Webb: 0:00

Why is it that we have high school graduates who can't read. Are public schools underperforming because they're underfunded? And does school choice hurt public education? Welcome to The Conservative Classroom, where we're teaching the truth and preserving our values. I'm your host, Mr. Webb, and I'm glad you're here. This podcast is a haven for conservative educators, parents and patriots like you who believe in the importance of free speech, traditional values and education without indoctrination. Each week, we dive into issues that are plaguing our education system and keeping you up at night. In each episode, we offer common sense ideas to improve education in our classrooms and communities. You may feel like you're the last conservative educator or parent, but I want you to know that you are not alone. By the way, if you like what you hear today, please share this podcast with a like-minded educator, parent or patriot. Together, we can teach the truth and preserve our values.

Mr. Webb: 1:17

In today's episode, I'm having a conversation with two Kentucky educators, Beanie Geoghegan and Delvn Azofeifa and we're going to be talking about issues in Kentucky Education, but they are issues that affect education in America as well. Now let's get started. Today, I'm excited to welcome back to the podcast Beanie Geoghegan and Delvin Azofeifa and they're here to discuss education topics in Kentucky. We're all Kentucky teachers and I really appreciate you guys joining me. For the folks that maybe didn't hear the other podcast episodes that I had you guys on individually, tell us a little about Yourself, how you got into teaching, what you're doing now. Delvin, we'll start with you.

Delvin Azofeifa: 2:16

Well, I am originally from Louisville, kentucky. I grew up in those who know Louisville, some of the rougher areas of town. I grew up in the West End. Later on I moved to Newburgh and so I Can't say that I was necessarily a choir boy growing up. As a result, there was a point because I was consistently in the principal's office and I saw a teacher in there who just said to me you know how come every time I'm in the office, you in the office. And so we ended up Talking about some program she had where I would have the opportunity to go on these field trips and literally see hundreds of beautiful girls. They're waiting for me and I'm like she's got to be lying. She's got to be.

Delvin Azofeifa: 3:19

But what I didn't know is she was taking me to a college, and so Before then I had no idea I was gonna go to college. In fact, when I told my dad I wanted to go to college, he was like college, why you want to go to college? You ain't no athlete, college is for white people. So I had to dismiss what he was saying because I knew what was going on in my neighborhood. If I stayed there, I would likely have not been here today Due to being dead or in jail. So I had to make a change and when I went to the Morehead State University I had nothing but respect for the teacher who got me out of this situation. So I wanted to get into education to, as they say, pay it forward to future knuckleheads of America who just need a little butt-kicking to get a motivated and do the right thing. So I currently teach at an alternative school in Lexington, Kentucky, Fayette County. I teach financial literacy and world history.

Mr. Webb: 4:36

Awesome and I love your straight talk, Delvin.

Delvin Azofeifa: 4:40

I don't know how to do anything else. It's just how I'm built.

Mr. Webb: 4:45

And when I had you on before it was after, it was at the end of the the Teacher Freedom Summit, so I really didn't get to ask you that question for you to tell me you know your story, so I appreciate that. That's interesting. Beanie, you were on before and told us a little about about yourself, but go ahead and tell us again. Tell us a little about yourself and how you got into teaching and what you're doing now.

Beanie Geoghegan: 5:10

Sure, so I. My story is probably a little less exciting, colorful than Delvin's, but I graduated with my teaching degree in 1997 and went on to actually. I taught first in public school in Georgia. We moved a couple weeks after my graduation to Georgia. I taught for three years down there in public school, came back here, taught in a private school and then stayed home and raised my four children.

Beanie Geoghegan: 5:40

When my youngest went to school, I went back. Well, during the time, but while I was a stay-at-home mom, I was pretty much a constant fixture at my kids elementary school as a classroom volunteer or PTA president, you name it. I was there, I did it, and so my husband said you know, you should probably just go get a job there, since you're always there. And so when my youngest went to kindergarten, I went back as a substitute teacher. Love to teach, hated all the bureaucracy that was involved with it, but so I substitute taught for, I think, five to six years. Then my last year, I was a reading interventionist. And then 2020 came around. My two youngest were still in the public school system and I got an inside look at what was, what was and what wasn't being taught in the classroom, and that was enough to get my head spinning. And I reached out to some local organizations as well as some national organizations that were Just as upset as I was about the various things I was seeing in the classroom. And this is, you know, I I was very hands-on, very involved, but boy was I shocked when I actually saw the classes that were being taught and what was being taught.

Beanie Geoghegan: 6:56

So for about three years I worked on exposing the problems in education and just sort of educating the public, and it was kind of how I met delvin and we can talk about that story here, if we want to, at some point in the podcast. But so, yeah, I mean delvin and I sort of met through the whole CRT, you know, aspect of things that were being taught in the classrooms and and then about midway through last year, I guess, late winter, early spring I sort of started getting frustrated with the fact that all I was doing was exposing the problems and then walking out of the room, leaving parents, teachers, community members with a whole lot of problems and no solutions. And so Freedom and education was born from that frustration that you know. Let's find out what the most Insidious problems are that we're facing in public education today and let's go in pursuit of solutions to those problems. And so that's what we do in freedom and education and we launched on September 6th. We're a national grassroots nonprofit organization and we truly are just sort of pairing up. When people come to us, whether they're teachers, parents, community members, legislators, policymakers, saying here's the problem that we're dealing with, we pair up solutions that will help to Hopefully fix some of those problems. So so that's where, where I am today with freedom and education, oh, and I also still volunteer, teach just one day a week.

Beanie Geoghegan: 8:25

There's a school that was born out of the response to COVID and it's Down near Churchill Downs in Louisville, and I volunteer there just one day a week, love to go and teach those kids and wish I could be there more, but but it's a. It's basically just a small Christian school kind of run like a one-room schoolhouse, and we're all volunteers that teach there. And these students, you know, I know we might touch on school choice, but these students, their, their choices are very limited. One that's, you know, financial means, the other is transportation, the other is they really just want to be in their community. And so the school was born out Of all of those things and we're able to provide them a really solid, safe learning environments where they can come and thrive and flourish and I'm just blessed to be able to be a very, very small part of that- Well, thanks for sharing all that.

Mr. Webb: 9:27

So you, you both and we, we love to teach, or we probably wouldn't be teachers, and I'm sure the reason I got into teaching I spent several years in banking and insurance and it wasn't very fulfilling and I got to thinking about. You know, I Was pushing 40, 40 years old, and I thought I want to do something that makes me happy and, long story short, I decided I can make a difference in Teaching and I love to be around kids, so that's why I got into. So there's lots of good things. We could probably do several episodes on all the things we love about teaching, but what are some things that we see specifically in Kentucky? But it could be general issues. What are some things that you guys see that we could do better in Kentucky?

Delvin Azofeifa: 10:31

Wow, that's a--c onsidering that in Kentucky only about a third of our kids can read and do math at grade level, I think just about anything would be a change for the better.

Beanie Geoghegan: 10:49

Well, actually, in the 2022 National Assessment for Educational Progress results in Jefferson County, 17% of eighth graders were proficient in math and 26% were proficient in reading. That's 2022 results from JCP. Now they'll tell you that, oh well, that's because of the pandemic. But if you go back to when NAPE was first given and you look at the results from then I think it was 2009 until today they've pretty much just flatlined. So what can we do better in Kentucky? Specifically, we can focus on academics and we can cut out.

Beanie Geoghegan: 11:41

I have an article that's coming out soon about the way that money is allocated Everybody talks about. Well, education isn't able to do what it's supposed to do because it's underfunded. It's underfunded. The teachers need a raise. I don't disagree that there are some teachers in Kentucky that need a pay raise Some, maybe many. However, we don't need to fund education more. We need to reallocate where those funds are going, because in Kentucky, we actually fund education fairly well, but in Jefferson County, for example, part of our $2 billion budget $6.94 million of that goes to DEI in Fayette County. Actually, I don't know what Fayette County is, because I called the other day to get that information and nobody seemed to know. So that will be an open records request coming soon. So what can we do in Kentucky to make education better? We can focus on academics and stop focusing on the political and social ideologies that are really siphoning money from what kids need.

Mr. Webb: 12:57

So back to the schools are not underfunded, because that's an argument. You hear that, well, we need more money. We need more money. And that's one reason why I think so many people are against school choice is they've heard from the teachers unions and others. They've heard from the liberal side I'll just be honest about it that well, if there's these other choices and that'll take all the money away from schools, and what's your response to that? So we'll go ahead and get into school choice, because I think this is a huge issue.

Delvin Azofeifa: 13:39

For me. I think that, to begin with, in Kentucky, every kid has to take the ACT. Act is not a Kentucky entity, can? Act is a private organization, but yet still we literally give them millions of dollars. Even if you consider the Google Chromebooks that just about every kid has, that's supporting a private industry. When you consider even the programs where we pretend kids are learning through computer learning, even though they can look it up online, all the answers and plug it in. But yay, we have Einstein on our hands, folks with a 4.0 but can't read at grade level.

Delvin Azofeifa: 14:34

So when you talk about schools not having to pay private entities, I think that's a completely ridiculous argument because they're already doing that. Even if you consider in Fayette County, for example, I don't know how much it costs for us to rent Rupp Arena for three days. That's a private entity. How about all the worthless t-shirts that we get? How do any of those t-shirts help to the educational outcome, a positive educational outcome to even one student? When we go to college to be teachers, there's a constant way. It used to be I can't speak on now, but it used to be a consistent push on providing evidence-based learning and it seems that a lot of these educational practices which are adopted aren't based on evidence, but rather in theory, and this theory is taking advantage of people's tax dollars and their children.

Mr. Webb: 15:46

So yeah, you had a good point. I hadn't thought about how schools pay private entities. Anyway, that's a very good point.

Beanie Geoghegan: 15:55

Absolutely. I mean, look at all the consultants and absolutely they do. I mean, pull any district's budget and you'll see the private entities that benefit. Public school, public education across the country is a cash cow, for any consulting company or textbook company or any type of technology company is a cash cow. But I have to tease Delvin about the whole t-shirt thing because he's forgetting about the whole diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging portion. Delvin, those t-shirts help students feel like they belong and that is a post-promote learning. Don't forget that. Don't forget that.

Delvin Azofeifa: 16:36

Yeah, you're right, we have to redress the trauma they've experienced through a t-shirt.

Beanie Geoghegan: 16:41

Right, right right.

Mr. Webb: 16:42

T-shirts make the difference, Delvin.

Beanie Geoghegan: 16:45

That's right. But also you know, to the argument that people will say people who don't support school choice will say that you know, school choice giving families a choice to where their children can get their education, whether that's public school, private school, homeschool, whatever will siphon money from public schools. Number one I would say to that is so what you're saying is that if families have a choice, they will leave public schools. I would question them first on that. And if that's the case, why is that the case? And number two, that when you look at it, public schools get funding from federal, state and local money. Right, so there's three different buckets that they get their money from. If a child does not attend their local public school, if parents choose or families choose to send their child to a private school, that school is still getting funds from the local tax property and from federal government. The only money that is going with that child that's, you know, that's not getting to that school is that state designated money. So actually what's happening is those schools are having to educate fewer students and they're still receiving money. So all of these people who are saying school choice will will just destroy public schools or defund public schools or all this and I said no.

Beanie Geoghegan: 18:14

Actually, number one, if your public school is as great as you're touting it to be because that's all I'm hearing right now from our great governor and all of these school board members is our public schools are wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. Well, I just told you the percentages of children who can read and do math at proficient levels. I would say that's wonderful. But if it is, then families won't leave. But if families choose to leave, they're not taking all of that money with them. They're taking a very, very small percentage of that money with them and you no longer have to educate that child, you no longer have to worry about the resources that that child will need.

Beanie Geoghegan: 18:54

So that argument that you know school choice will destroy public schools. First of all, we have evidence from all across the country that states that have a robust school choice program. The public schools are doing just fine. Actually, the public schools have improved because guess what? Competence breeds excellence. But also most of the families stay in public schools. But also they're not losing that much money, so they're having to educate fewer students with money that they they are still able to get from local property taxes and from federal government.

Mr. Webb: 19:32

Well, competition is a good thing, and I think if we had more competition, schools would have to improve. Because that's what businesses do. When another business comes in to compete with them, they don't just throw their hands up and say, oh well, you're right, you know. They say, ok, we've got some competition here. What can we do to compete? Can we improve our customer service? Could we lower our prices a little bit? They look at all these things and they look at what their competition is doing and they say, ok, they're really good in this area, we're really weak in this area. Let's strengthen this area. And I think that's exactly what schools would do. I think there would be some growing pains, I think, if tomorrow suddenly every school in Kentucky had competition, I think. I think there would be a learning curve and I. But I think eventually they would have to get better. Or they'd say get better or die. That sounds horrible, that's too dark for this podcast, but you know what I'm saying.

Beanie Geoghegan: 20:41

Well, you know, that's something that that people say you know they're like. Well, the accountability in private schools. There absolutely is accountability in private schools, because if private schools fail to meet the academic needs of the students, parents pull their kids out. Those private schools will eventually close, if enough parents pull their kids out. If public schools fail to meet the academic needs of their students, those public schools get more government funding. So there is more accountability in private schools than in public schools. Will some private schools fail Absolutely? Will some charter schools fail Absolutely? But you know what? There are a lot of public schools that are failing to meet the academic needs of students today and all they get is more government funding for things that do not actually improve student learning.

Delvin Azofeifa: 21:30

Now, beanie I think you only touched one part of it by talking about this is how schools are today. I think it's far worse. Again, I'm a history teacher so I have to do this, looking at historical trends. For example, shawnee High School that's where my dad graduated in 1972. And he talked about how it was a horrible school back then. Today it's still a horrible school, and the people who are locked into that neighborhood when you tell them listen. We know that they've been doing bad since at least 1972. But trust us, we're going to improve by the time your kid get there, or if their kid is already there, just bear it out until you graduate. We cannot have our kids to afford to. We already know how much learning was lost during covid, so that generation is going to be with us for some time. So to be able to lose even more learning because you're forced to go to an inadequate school, I think that's totally disingenuous, especially for those people who tell how they care about marginalized communities or underserved communities Exactly.

Mr. Webb: 22:49

Well, and you were at the rich kids, so to speak. They can go to the private schools. Already they can do that.

Beanie Geoghegan: 22:57

The folks that need school choice most Are stuck in, some of them stuck in public schools that are failing yeah, walter blanks was at the Commonwealth Policy Center candidate training session that Delvin and I were both at last week and he was sharing how he, his mom, finally pulled him out of the school that he was in. And he and his mom both go back and look at because the Principal begged them, begged his mom, to keep him in the school and she said just give us five more years, five more years and we'll be better, will improve, will be better. And so it's now been 15 years since he's been in that school and he and his mom both go back every year and look at that and they've either flatlined or they've gone back in. And so you know he's like, if I had stayed there, what would my future be today? I mean, I've met the president of the United States, I've sat next to him in a meeting, but if I had stayed there, what, what, where would I be today? And but that's what they kept telling him is just give us five more years, five more years, we'll get better.

Beanie Geoghegan: 24:02

Pastor Stevenson in Louisville, kentucky wonderful, just good, kind-hearted man, cannot say enough good things about him. But he was at a panel about school choice several months ago and he was saying that he has been talking about this for over a decade that you know, especially the black students in in Louisville have not been proficient in. They're graduating illiterate. Basically is what he's saying, and he was giving the data to support that. And he said People keep telling me just wait, it'll get better, just wait, it'll get better. Just wait, it'll get better. He said I'm sitting here over 10 years later and nothing has gotten better. What is it gonna take to let these families have other options to do this? So, like you said, delvin, some of the people who were so adamantly opposed school choice Supposedly are Advocating for the quote-unquote marginalized community. And yet it is that marginalized community that is so deeply impacted by the lack of school choice and it's.

Beanie Geoghegan: 25:13

I don't understand it. I it doesn't. Joey and I were having conversation about logic and logical arguments and discussions. I cannot fathom it. It doesn't make sense to me at all. I go back to Thomas soul and how it was. Like we've got the logic, but other people just don't understand it. So I I don't know. Maybe you guys can shed some light on that and help me understand I don't think you can apply logic to it any more than you can.

Delvin Azofeifa: 25:39

When, basically, white rich liberals came up with this idea of defund the police, I have no Proof or evidence, but I suspect is because of their strong belief in white privilege. So they felt guilty and as a result, um, they talked about defund the police. But when you defund the police, it's the most marginalized people With high crime areas who need the police, who want the police. This wasn't the people who they actually represent was saying defund the police. It was their elitist leaders, and I think it's no different than the same people who scream about how school choices and anathema, but yet and still those same people will send their own kids to private school.

Mr. Webb: 26:31

Exactly.

Beanie Geoghegan: 26:33

Yeah, that's always amazing to me. I mean, I I know teachers, I have people I have taught with, I've worked alongside with who who Will hear nothing about school choice, who will adamantly defend the public school system but would never consider sending their own children to those same public schools. They send them to private schools and I'm like that's fine. You, you deserve to have the right to choose your, to send your child anywhere you want to send your child. But but then don't tell other people that they should just be happy with the public schools and not have any choice whatsoever. I, I just struggle with that so much.

Delvin Azofeifa: 27:15

I heard somebody I think it was at that conference, beanie who said that's just like a chef who don't eat his own food at his own restaurant.

Mr. Webb: 27:25

Yeah yeah that's a red flag for sure.

Beanie Geoghegan: 27:27

Yeah, I mean truly it is, it's um the food is fine, just trust me.

Mr. Webb: 27:36

That's where you go across the street to a different.

Beanie Geoghegan: 27:43

Yeah. So we'll see. I'm I'm, I am hopeful, I'm optimistic that the legislature will do something with the constitutional amendment here in Kentucky to even give voters the opportunity to To, you know, put their two cents in on whether or not they think families should have the freedom To choose the best learning environment for their own children, or if they think the government should be in charge of that. So if you know the the bill gets passed, one of these bills gets passed, um, then it'll be up to voters in November to decide whether or not Families not government should should direct the educational path for their children. So that will be very interesting to watch and you can be certain that I will be vocal About that issue when the time comes.

Mr. Webb: 28:29

Well, I was just thinking I hope conservatives come out and droves to talk about this issue and educate the general public who, if they listen to the you know media, they just hear one side of it how, oh, this is bad for education, it's going to destroy education. I feel like that's. That's something that we face like as conservatives. One side is really loud and they have most of the media To get their point across. Yes, I mean, even even here in Kentucky that's the case, absolutely. But while before I forget, I want to go back to something that that delvin said about the school's pay private entities. Um, and I was thinking about state testing. I don't know the figure, but I wonder how much money we spend To the you know a third party company that creates the tests, administers the test, but there's no telling. I mean, do you guys have any? Do you have any statistic on that? I'm kind of throwing you, you know, totally asking you a very difficult question without you being prepared for it.

Beanie Geoghegan: 29:46

So yeah, that would be college board and that would just be a simple, you know, open records request to find out. You know what that, what, what is it that college board gains Financially from college board has? So college board has a monopoly on the ap's Classes which I'm not a big fan of. My kids took some but I'm not a big fan of. If I could go back and do it again, I would do it very differently. Um, but then they also have the monopoly on the standardized testing as well. So I don't have that figure.

Beanie Geoghegan: 30:21

Um, it would be an interesting figure to get, but, um, yeah, I would think an open records request would. Would show how much the various districts in Kentucky spend on or or send to college board, would tell that story. It's a lot, I'm sure that's why. So freedom in education actually promotes the classic learning test, not only because we don't believe that College board should have monopoly on testing, but what the classic learning tests actually tests Is much better than what the ACT and the SAT test. So you know, you may you may read a passage from Bernie Sanders on the SAT. On the classic learning test, you would be required to Answer some questions about the writing system. Um, answer some questions about the writings of Homer. Which do you want your child reading, studying to prepare for class?

Mr. Webb: 31:18

Yeah, exactly yeah. So I don't know how many millions we pour into standardized testing Billions, I mean billions, yeah, probably billions. But is Is the standardized testing at least the way we have it now? Is that a good thing? Is it helping, or do you find that most teachers kind of, uh, teach to the test versus actually Helping students learn? That's kind of a loaded question because you know, I'm a teacher and obviously I'm wanting to help students learn, but at the same time I know that the students I have this year will be talking about their test scores next year.

Delvin Azofeifa: 32:09

Yeah, um, I definitely know that there are some people who sacrifice Creativity and Quote extra learning Because of what they predict is going to be on the test.

Delvin Azofeifa: 32:27

One of the most generic examples is this Um, right now is the celebration of black history month, and I'm of the mind that Black history month is every month and you should, if you're teaching social studies, you should teach about it all the time, not just in a designated month. And so, um, I do believe that In Kentucky, um, a lot of times, especially the uh, because we had a I know I'm Going a long way about this, but we had a staff meeting this morning and, uh, one of the things they had asked About because they presented these, it was a survey that all the teachers had to take, basically a satisfaction survey, and our ranking of administration was low. And there was a question Well, why do you think this is happening? And a lot of it is because of the decisions that are made by upper administration that even the people who fall below that can't do anything about. So you also have that where, especially new teachers, they say well, gee, I can't buck the system because I won't get my contract renewed. So there's also that type of pressure to teach to the test as well?

Delvin Azofeifa: 33:52

Yeah, I think. Unfortunately, there.

Beanie Geoghegan: 33:54

It definitely is that mindset. When I was in Georgia it was pretty intense. Um, you know the standardized tests, we that was back when you could actually study for the standardized tests and we did, we had our students study for it. But, um, but if you do away with standardized tests, then Then how do you gauge Student learning? So I think that's a good point. I think we need to gauge student learning. We know that great inflation is a reality. I for sure. I mean, uh, I've the posts that I, you know, posted today.

Beanie Geoghegan: 34:32

I heard a lot of comments about great inflation and and one student who builds relationships all of her students make, as in. The other student who Enforces rigor over relationships. His students may be C and D or F students, but he's intent on making sure that they actually learn the material. So the A students next door don't know anything, but they feel real good about things. The C and D students probably know more, but maybe don't have that same relationship with their teacher. So something to think about Is standardized testing perfect?

Beanie Geoghegan: 35:10

No, now it is the best way that we have to gauge student learning and the effectiveness of teaching. Unfortunately, we have to gauge student learning and the effectiveness of teaching, that the results of the standardized tests don't necessarily alter the way that instruction happens, so that student learning improves. So we see that standardized testing shows again, what was it? 17% proficient in math. Oh well, okay, that must be because math is racist. And so JCPS kind of played around with adopting anti-racist math, because the reason students weren't learning math is because math is racist. Math is math, it just is, and so it's not that math is racist. That was not why 17% of the students in Jefferson County public schools were proficient in math. It's because the math instruction was not effective and students were not learning from it. So standardized tests are necessary.

Beanie Geoghegan: 36:21

Do I love them? No, as a teacher did I love them. No, but my students still will take a test to master the level they're on, and until they master that, they cannot go on to the next level. Unfortunately, in public school they are able to not master things and still go on to the next grade. I think it's probably how we use standardized tests data and then also again what standardized tests are being issued. So if you were using the classic learning test, the classic learning test would definitely change the curriculum, because students would have to be taught in a different way, using different curriculum, better curriculum, but that's just not how the public school works.

Beanie Geoghegan: 37:11

But I don't think you can't ask for billions of dollars of taxpayer money and not have some data to show. Well, here's how your money's being spent. And are we getting a good return on our investment in Kentucky? I would say absolutely not. What do we have? Two thirds of our students who are not proficient in literacy and math when they graduate from high school. That is not a solid return on our investment in Kentucky when you think about the amount of money. But taxpayers need to know that information Is it hurtful?

Delvin Azofeifa: 37:44

I think it gets worse than that Beanie. When you consider that if you have two thirds of your potential workforce that can't do simple computations or reading simple form letters, then it puts us at a distinct disadvantage compared to, let's say, states like Florida who do in fact educate their kids and don't indoctrinate. It's very important for, when businesses go into a place, to predict out what's the likelihood that they'll be able to have the workforce that will help their business to grow. And in Kentucky it's pretty solid evidence out there that we have a lot of work to do.

Mr. Webb: 38:27

Right and Beanie, you touched on something that I was gonna pivot to when I brought up the state testing and you kind of already brought it up, and that's how the grades in the classroom don't match the test scores.

Beanie Geoghegan: 38:43

Or the graduation rates or the graduation rates.

Mr. Webb: 38:46

And I think Delvin said earlier in the podcast, like a student that has a 4.0 but can't read. So that's my main issue with standardized testing is is that the results don't match the grades. So I wish someone would look at these test scores and say, okay, why can't the students read, why are they not proficient in math? And get to the root of the problem and figure out what is the actual root. I already know the root, joey. I heard someone say a good way to get to the bottom of any issue is to ask why and then, when you think you have a reason, ask well, why? And keep asking why until you get to the root of the problem. So I'm sorry, delvin, what are you gonna say?

Delvin Azofeifa: 39:41

Well, let me start with a root. Yeah to me, one of the things I do in my class I read to them cause. Keep in mind, my school is majority black, so I read up from slavery by Booker T Washington, who was a slave himself. He was talking about was talking about in that book, when black people got free, how it was such a priority for those who couldn't read to learn to read, no matter the age. No matter the age, independent schools started popping up all over the place and even those independent schools had to turn people away because they just didn't have the room.

Delvin Azofeifa: 40:29

When you juxtapose that to the culture today, where students have the best amenities air conditioning, they're able to get buses, get you home on time unless you're in Jefferson County and these are things that we take for granted. And there's a saying that I have in regard to black people in America which says they used to kill us to read. Now it just kills us to read. So culture is the root of a lot of this.

Delvin Azofeifa: 41:05

Again, I work at an alternative program where a lot of my students have ankle monitors, are released from juvenile detention and such, and I've even raised this question with my students. I've said we have mostly black kids here, next is Hispanics and then white kids. Why is it that we don't ever have any Asians here? Where are the Middle Easterners? And we get a few Africans every now and then, but you find out that they are trying to emulate the culture of what they think is the black experience to fit in. So yeah, I think culture is the root of all of this. If you even look at the other side, you stereotypically hear about the tiger moms who make sure that their kids learn they're playing violin and doing all these activities, keeping them away from drugs, keeping them off of the screens to TikTok videos.

Mr. Webb: 42:11

That's a good point.

Beanie Geoghegan: 42:13

Yeah, and I would say to that I know some of the students at my school have challenging home lives they're, and we really don't necessarily address that while they're at school. What we try to do is create an learning environment that is structured, consistent, calm, orderly. And in fact I've had to have conversations with them at the very beginning about the language that's used at home versus the language that's used at school and I've said I know your families may talk a certain way at home, but this is how we're talking at school and that's just the rules and that kind of thing. And so we realize that some of the issues that these students face at home are much bigger than anything we're capable of quote, unquote fixing. But we can at least equip these students with a solid education. And, delvin, like you said, we are very careful about the books that go on the school library shelves. We get lots of donations of books all the time from very generous people and we appreciate that. But we go through them very carefully before they get put on the shelves, not because they're inappropriate or explicit or anything like that, but because we don't think that we should be wasting school time reading Captain Underpants. We're gonna use school time to read White Fang and Gulliver's Travels and Little Women and books like that. Charlotte's Web If you wanna read Captain Underpants at home, go for it, but here at school we're gonna introduce you to a world that you may be unfamiliar to.

Beanie Geoghegan: 44:07

And I was in school last week with my students and they said Miss Beanie, what time did you go to bed last night? And I said well, I think I fell asleep about 10 o'clock and I'm reading Gulliver's Travels right now. And so I was staying awake reading and they said you've never read that book. Like I mean they couldn't believe I've never read that book. They said that's such a good book and it made my heart just leap because when I came to this school three years ago and I said I'm just gonna come and read to you, that was always gonna do it. The school was read one hour a week. And here I am.

Beanie Geoghegan: 44:40

But that was sort of a novel idea. Like they didn't understand the concept of reading for pleasure and reading good books for pleasure, and so the very first book I ever read to them was Charlotte's Web, when we've read lots of beautiful books in the last three years, but the fact that they would sort of chastise me for not having read Gulliver's Travels, when clearly they know it's such a good book. And I thought I love this. This is wonderful, and I think you open up their world to like you know what.

Beanie Geoghegan: 45:08

Yeah, I want you to graduate from high school and go on to get a good job or go on to college or whatever it is you wanna do, but ultimately in life, I want you to go on to just flourish. I want you to enjoy the beautiful things in life, and one of those things is beautiful books, beautiful literature and beautiful art, beautiful music and know what those things are. And so I think that's something that we can do for our students, regardless of where they come from, regardless of what's going on at home, regardless of the fact of you know, will we cure poverty and end drug addiction and heal every broken marriage? And no, schools are not going to do that, they were not designed to do that. But we can give students the tools to go on and maybe break that cycle that they see in their lives. Maybe, but that's not gonna happen through social, emotional learning and mental health and all that kind of stuff. It's gonna happen through a good, solid education that points them to what's good, true and beautiful.

Mr. Webb: 46:08

So you mentioned social emotional learning and that makes me think of restorative justice in those practices and, excuse me, I know one of the topics when I was asking you guys if you could Let me say this Joey, yeah, last Wednesday.

Delvin Azofeifa: 46:29

So one of the things that bothers me in general about education is what I would call teaching on autopilot, and what that is is where teachers have the textbook. They'll have a disc where it has all the worksheets, the answer keys, the tests, and I have been made to be that type of teacher because we have this period called advisory On Wednesday. Every Wednesday we have to teach SEL, and the lesson burned me up. When I am in so, for example, when I have students to fill out their voter registration cards, one of the most popular questions to me is Mr Delvin, are you a Democrat or Republican? I was like what do you think? I am? No, no, no, what are you? I don't know. What are you? Yeah, or something. So they don't know my political leanings in that perspective.

Delvin Azofeifa: 47:38

Now, when it comes to this SEL, yeah, they know how I feel about this stuff. So the lesson was about empathy and empathy bias, and it said that you are likely to have empathy for somebody who looks like you. You're likely to have empathy for somebody with your same gender, and I just thought about how ridiculous that was, because if I could only identify with black men, then this podcast wouldn't be happening. So, in addition, if that were true, I wouldn't be married to a Costa Rican immigrant.

Beanie Geoghegan: 48:32

I would venture to say you all wouldn't have done very well in school at all, because I bet most of your teachers, at least your elementary school, were women right.

Delvin Azofeifa: 48:40

Absolutely.

Beanie Geoghegan: 48:42

So I mean I went to a Catholic grade school and a good portion of mine were women that were nothing like me necessarily. So I don't know. I know that people have cite studies saying that they have to look like you and know where you come from in order for you to learn from them. But I mean, not too many years before I came to my school, nuns were teaching and I certainly you know my brother didn't relate to the nuns, but he's probably one of the smartest people I know.

Mr. Webb: 49:18

So I don't know.

Delvin Azofeifa: 49:20

When I'm confronted with that idea that you have to have somebody to look like you to do X, my retort is no pioneer ever had somebody who looked like them before they did the thing. So if you really subscribe to that philosophy so deep, you'll never be a pioneer. You'll never be an innovator, a self-starter. You will always follow somebody else's agenda and program.

Mr. Webb: 49:49

That's a very good point.

Beanie Geoghegan: 49:50

Well, and I?

Beanie Geoghegan: 49:51

think yeah, I think too that that sort of hinders it hinders teachers and then if students hear it, if they're old enough to understand it or say it, it kind of just allows for an excuse for that. You know where I teach. I don't look anything like my students. My students, I think, learn a lot from me. We do have a good relationship. I know I was sort of, you know, dunking on relationships earlier, but we do actually have a good relationship. It's a relationship of I'm your teacher and your authority figure and you're my students and you're here to learn from me. But they also know that I care about them and I care about their learning. We don't look alike. We don't come from the same place. We have very different life situations and at the same time, they know I want them to succeed and will do whatever it takes to help them succeed. And they also know that I have very high expectations for them and they work really hard to meet those expectations. And so, you know, I just I think that any of the other things that come into play there are almost like excuses for why students aren't performing at certain levels or why teachers are ineffective, and it's like I think that that's maybe just an excuse and you know, maybe it's just the way that you're I don't know that. You know the curriculum you're using or maybe it's behavior or whatever it is. And I know some of that behavior stuff is out of the control of the classroom teacher. At times that goes all the way up to administration. But I just I'm not a big fan of excuses. In fact I tell my students that I'm not a big fan of excuses. When they, you know, are getting sleepy in class and they're falling asleep on me, I'm like what's going on? Well, I stayed up late. What did you say? Up late doing Playing video games? I'm like, hey, don't care, stay awake, you've got school to do. Don't give me an excuse, you know, I just and they know that, but they know that I'm. I say that to them not because I'm just want to be mean to them, but because I'm like you actually need to be here in school.

Beanie Geoghegan: 52:07

I had a student when I first started teaching at Moore Grace. He was working at Pizza Hut and he would work at Pizza Hut until about midnight and then he would sleep through the next day at school and great kid, just just a joy to having class. But but he would sleep and I would say do you want to work at Pizza Hut for the rest of your life? No, I said, well, okay, you're investing more of your awake time and energy in Pizza Hut than you are in your school. So, at the end of the day, where do you think you're going to end up? Here? Because if you're sleeping through school, that's going to help you not work at Pizza Hut for the rest of your life, but you're awake during your Pizza Hut shift. Where do you think you're going to be? And I said, and I said you need to tell your, your manager at Pizza Hut that you can only work until you know this time, at night or whatever.

Beanie Geoghegan: 52:59

He actually quit his job. I did not tell him to quit his job, but he quit his job. And cause? He said, miss B, that made sense to me. I don't want to work at Pizza Hut the rest of my life. I want to get through school and I want to be able to do something else. And so you know, and I think just having those, those conversations with students, it's not, it's not harsh, it's not judgmental, it's just reality. And if you really truly care about your students and want what's best for them. Then you'll have some of those hard conversations with them.

Delvin Azofeifa: 53:29

What you said, beanie, was profound in that, again, in the public schools there is a cost sometimes of being real, where sometimes you have, we'll say, overprotective parents. My child can never do any wrong under any circumstances when you tell them something like that and it's like oh, you made him quit his job, so now I can't pay my bill you wrong and you know so.

Delvin Azofeifa: 54:08

Again, we we like when they say it takes a village to raise a child. That's true, but we are supposed to have that child's best interest at heart. I'm not saying to not consider the parents at all, but you have to consider the parents sometime. For example, we had a situation that I heard about where a student brought some marijuana to school and the student's mother came to the school asking about where is it at? We threw it away. Well, y'all need to reimburse me for that, because I pay good money for him to have that weed.

Beanie Geoghegan: 54:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, fortunately, the students well, the student in that case that I was talking about, because I asked him that I said do you need this money to like, buy your clothes or to buy food or whatever? And he said no. And I said, well, what do you use the money for? And it was just, you know, like just fast food, just like not, it wasn't a necessity, because I know what you're talking about and there are students who work to help their families, and in this case it was not that. And again, I did not tell him to quit his job, I just sort of laid it out for him If you invest more time and energy into your job at Pizza Hut than you do in school, just understand where you're going to end up at the end of the day. And that was kind of a wake-up call for him. I did not tell him to quit his job, I just told him to cut his hours back.

Mr. Webb: 55:49

I'll brag on you. That's a brilliant line of thinking and I think a lot of teachers may have just stopped at this. Kid's fallen asleep in my class, so first of all, it was great that you talked to him, but then that was a wonderful line of thinking that goes back to the logic thing that we were talking about before the podcast. That's a good line of logic there, and it sounded like it had an effect on that student.

Beanie Geoghegan: 56:16

Yeah, I mean it really did, and I said he's a great kid. I want to find out where these kids are in 10 years and hopefully they made good decisions. You never know. But all you can do is plant the seeds and again equip them with the knowledge that they need to be successful. My son, I have four kids, three boys and a daughter, but my 20-year-old and I have regular conversations about the possibility of implanting the chip in your brain, so everybody has access to the same amount of information. I know this seems to be going off in a tangent, but it's a very interesting tangent.

Mr. Webb: 57:00

Go ahead.

Beanie Geoghegan: 57:03

And so everybody has the same amount of information, then what's to stop anybody, everybody will know the same things, and so they'll be able to do the same thing. And I said, well, that's not necessarily true, because and I give him names of family members and I said, if I have this amount of information, and this person has this amount of information, do you really think that she and I will end up at the same place? Well, I mean, I was like, well, no, if it's all about information, right. If it's all about just gaining knowledge, we should end up at the same place, right, right? I mean, like that's what it is. Well, yeah, but I was like, okay, but it's more than that, right? So we've got to equip our students with knowledge. We also then have to equip them with the ability to reason and to think logically about those things, to think period, about those things.

Beanie Geoghegan: 57:58

I tweeted a couple days ago about that. We have way too many critics in the world and far too few thinkers. So we have everybody who wants to be a critical thinker. We don't have anybody that just wants to be a thinker. We think about the things that you know, right? And so, yeah, we can all have the same amount of quote unquote information. We can Google that, but are we able to take it in and logically reason with it and think about it and think about how is that going to play out in the future? What does that mean? You know down the road, and so those are things that we have to think about too.

Beanie Geoghegan: 58:30

That doesn't start in kindergarten. You don't start in kindergarten teaching kindergartners, five and six year olds, how to critically think about climate change. You teach them about the weather and climate and then later on you equip them with the ability to take information and then to sort of, you know, put it in a logical fashion so that they can reason and think about that information. But I disagree with my son vehemently that if we all got that chip implanted in our brains we would all end up at the same place, because I do think that there is so much more to it than just you've got to have that content knowledge. You absolutely do. But then you also have to teach people that you've got to think about these things and not just to sort of critique them or, you know, break them down, dismantle, disrupt, right.

Mr. Webb: 59:21

Yeah, delvin, were you going to say something a minute ago?

Delvin Azofeifa: 59:27

Oh, not in particular. Beanie was doing a great job. I was just listening.

Beanie Geoghegan: 59:34

I do go off on my tangents, I apologize.

Mr. Webb: 59:38

No, that was very interesting. I encourage tangents, the folks that are listening. If there's one thing you want them to remember about this episode, what would that be?

Beanie Geoghegan: 59:53

Oh goodness, okay. So for the parents who are listening, put the devices down. Make your children put the devices down. Read good books with your children Just got to start at home. And then to the teachers who are listening, don't be discouraged. There are people out there who are advocating on your behalf, who are advocating for the effective things that work in the classroom, but in the meantime, I would also encourage you to read good books to end with your students, knowing that many of your students can't read those good books themselves, so read to them. Even high school students love to be read to. So I am a big advocate of reading quality literature, even if you have to read it to them. Expose them to those beautiful stories that many of them are missing out on, and and let them know that there is a whole wide world beyond that device and the classics are classics for a reason.

Mr. Webb: 1:00:58

We may have talked about that. That may actually been something you said when I had you on the podcast a few months ago, so if I stole that from you, I'm sorry.

Beanie Geoghegan: 1:01:08

No, I probably stole it from someone else.

Mr. Webb: 1:01:12

Delvin. What about you? What is the one thing you want the listener to remember, if they don't remember anything else about this episode?

Delvin Azofeifa: 1:01:19

I would like them to remember that schools are not underfunded as the political machine would suggest, there is way too much blow and administrative costs in programs that do not objectively help students to achieve positive student outcomes, and that, when it comes to funding private entities, there is already tons of money that are going toward private entities such as a, c, t and the textbook companies. We have to be real that if school choices on the ballot, you have to give the most marginalized students an opportunity to go somewhere else if where they are is failing.

Mr. Webb: 1:02:23

That's great advice, and this, this question, I guess, goes out to both of you. Would you guys like to share where folks can connect with you, whether it's on social media, or is there anything that you want to plug or promote? And I know, beanie, you have a podcast, so I would like for you to mention that. And then, delvin, you can share anything that you want to plug or promote, or if it's just how folks can connect with you on social media. That's great too.

Beanie Geoghegan: 1:02:59

Sure I. So of course, I'm on social media, just as myself, but also with freedom and education. We are freedom and edorg, wwwfreedomandedorg. We're on every social media platform as well. So if you go to our website, you'll find the links to all of our different social media platforms. You can go there. So I was excited about recording our first hosting, my first podcast with Dr Gary Houchens from Western Kentucky University. Just this past week we discussed Daisy Christodolou's book, the Seven Myths About Education, and I cannot wait for that one to air. It'll probably be a couple of weeks before it's actually put out there, but I'll definitely post it on all of our social media and then probably the conservative teachers of America. It's a wonderful book. I encourage everybody to get it. It was published in 2013. It basically dismantled, unraveled, everything I learned in education. So it was a great discussion with Dr Houchens and I just value his wisdom and expertise. So, yeah, follow us on freedomandeducationorg and all the different social media sites too.

Mr. Webb: 1:04:17

All right, and I love a good podcast and I don't mind promoting someone else's podcast at all. There can't be too many voices pushing for the greatness of education.

Beanie Geoghegan: 1:04:33

We all learn from each other.

Delvin Azofeifa: 1:04:38

Well, I'm Delvin Ossolfefa. I can be found on my email, mrdelvinathotmailcom. I'm also on Facebook quite a bit and I'm also running for city commissioner in Frankfurt, Kentucky. So vote for Delvin.

Mr. Webb: 1:04:59

All right, that's awesome. I appreciate you guys coming on and vote for Delvin. We'll end on that, that's right. So thank you guys so much for joining me on the podcast.

Beanie Geoghegan: 1:05:13

Thank you.

Mr. Webb: 1:05:14

It's been a pleasure Enjoy talking with you guys. Hopefully and I know our listeners will appreciate your insights on education. Thank you so much.

Beanie Geoghegan: 1:05:24

Thanks for having me. Thank you, yeah, thanks so much.

Mr. Webb: 1:05:29

That's it for today's episode of The Conservative Classroom. Thank you for tuning in. I hope you enjoyed it and learned something. If you liked what you heard, please don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Most importantly, share this podcast with a like-minded educator, parent or patriot. You can also connect with us on social media and share your thoughts on today's topic. Give feedback on the podcast or suggest a topic by sending me an email at TheConservativeClassroom@gmail. com. We'd love to hear from you.

Mr. Webb: 1:06:08

If you feel that education without indoctrination and teaching the truth is important to preserve traditional values, then support my efforts to keep the conservative classroom running. I'm a full-time teacher and dad and part-time podcaster. I invest a lot of hours and my own hard-earned money each week to bring you quality content, but I need your help. Check out the links in the show notes and on the website to support the podcast with one time or recurring monthly donations. Every little bit helps.

Mr. Webb: 1:06:42

You can also visit our merch store to get your own clothing, coffee mugs, stickers, backpacks, book bags and more with the conservative classroom logo or one of our many other conservative slogans, such as age-appropriate does not equal banning books. Defund the teachers unions. Keep politics out of the classroom and more. If you want to support common sense in education without pushing your politics, check out our products with the Red Schoolhouse logo on it. We know it's hard to be openly conservative in some school districts, but your silent show of support may help you find other conservatives in your community and it lets you know that you're doing the right thing. Until next time. This is Mr. Webb, reminding you that you are not alone. See you next time on The Conservative Classroom. Teaching the truh. Preserving our values.